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+--- Thread: Others' Island (spoilers all books incl RWC) (/thread-145.html)
Others' Island (spoilers all books incl RWC) - Farseer - May-02-2010
Others Island FASCINATES me but, to begin the discussion, I will concentrate first on items from the Treasure Beach.
The significance of the items which Fitz, Etta and Dutiful found (and Wintrow also, as he indeed found and then released She Who Remembers) seemed easy enough to ascertain: Fitz – feathers for the Rooster Crown which would later allow him to save Fool after Fool preserved his blood/memory or even ‘anma’ within it and also 'buy back' Fitz's memories from Girl-on-a-Dragon), Dutiful – necklace with figurine depicting Ellianna, his future Queen, and, lastly, Etta – the tiny figure of a serpentine baby which, to me, pointed to the fact that not only would she mother a child but this child would later become an Elderling. Most of Kennit’s finds are another matter...
What are the significances of his finds (not including those picked up by Gankis eg the trio of performers in motley who were contained within the glass sphere etc)?
* The golden locket with picture of a female inside – this I imagined to be Etta so is straightforward? Kennit originally had planned to take the locket with him but then had Gankis return it to the beach.
* The wooden chest with one dozen tea cups – though well used, Kennit noted that these were not fashioned nor used by humans however I did find it interesting that they were of a blue and white colour (bone with fine, blue paintings)...the same coloured cups as I seem to recall Kennit’s mother using in her home at one time but am not sure if that’s a connection or not. Will try and find a quote from the book.
* The tiny, cedar box with one dozen mother-of-pearl fingernails with hollowed tips, possibly for storing poison.
* Sturdy, leather bag with a half dozen kittens - while finding the kittens is mentioned elsewhere in the thread ‘cats’ http://forums.theplenty.net/showthread.php?tid=110&page=1 , I wonder at even the significance of the colour of the bag that the kittens were found in: red and blue. This jumps out at me as I am sure that the serpents and dragons on the fabric of Fool’s Elderling-fashioned tent (taken to Aslevjal and then later used by he and Fitz when Fitz healed him in FF) were red and blue. Are the colours just a coincidence or something more?
* The ruby earring taken from the ear of “the runt” of the litter, which he later gave to Etta?
Another question - Why have some managed to take items from the beach without consequence?
We know that nobody is supposed to keep anything that they find on Treasure Beach, as all that is found must stay, so, WHY were Fitz, Dutiful and Etta able to remain unpunished after taking objects with them (Wintrow could be seen in the same light as these three but, technically, he did 'return' SWR to the sea)?
The Other had told Kennit something like, “Since you have taken from the sea, you will be taken by the sea”...and this proved to be so in his case, as he did take the ruby and did end up having his body taken by the sea after his death. Why did the other three not meet a similar fate? The only thing I can think of...*clutching at straws*...is that they proved themselves, or would prove themselves, ‘dragonkin’ and therefore, as kin to the Lords of the Three Realms, they, to a degree, have a sort of right to the items?
Or, possibly an even greater stretch (!!), Sa or El were pleased with their behaviour and roles played with "changing the course of the world" whereas Kennit proved that he would continue in the same cycle, unable to create a true change within himself (though he did create many significant changes throughout the course of his life, in the end he seemed fated to re-enact the horrors which he himself experienced at the hands of Igrot etc). In this way, he may have been deserving of punishment and the only way to change that course was through his death.
More on Others Island later...!
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Chrischa - May-03-2010
Very interesting thread!
One thing I immediately wanted to add is that it's only the Others who claim that the beach's treasures must remain. I think there is no more significance to it then they want to keep those things for themselves, and they use their magic to convince the visitors to do so. Wintrow, Kennit, Dutiful and Fitz all managed to escape this working of magic, either through deliberate force of will or by simply escaping.
Regarding Kennit's treasures, I have no idea! The only other time a drowned kitten appears in the books is Thick's image of himself, but that can't have anything to do with Kennit. Could it be that the beach gave Kennit the kittens to scare off the Other, so that he could escape with the earring and give it to Etta, to bind her to him?
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Nuytsia - May-03-2010
I can see I'm going to have to buy all the books, so I can take part in interesting threads like this! I borrowed them all from the library so the only one I actually own at the moment is Dragon Keeper. I have a terrible memory!!!!!
I do recall wondering about Kennit's treasures, but I think I had a vague idea all would be revealed later in the books. I don't remember it happening though! Hmmmmmm one reading is definitely not enough!
It's funny how some of the treasures seem very straightforward/mundane and others I have NO clue WHAT they mean. eg Dutiful ends up with a statue of his bride..... seems pretty straightforward and not sure how it really portended anything? Whereas eg Kennit - teacups, fingernails, WHAT the???
Maybe most of these Robin didn't actually mean anything and just thought 'that sounds weird I'll put it in'
I thought Etta with the baby was pretty obvious. I didn't remember it being serpent like, but I like the idea of Elderling!!!
As to why some were able to take objects without punishment, well I think I'm agreeing with Chrischa - I don't think there's any real significance outside of the Others wishes. As they seem to be outcast by Dragons (and presumably Serpents!) I think they are just acting for their own selfish reasons. As to possible Divine intervention I couldn't say!
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Farseer - May-18-2010
(May-03-2010, 09:38 AM (UTC))Chrischa Wrote: One thing I immediately wanted to add is that it's only the Others who claim that the beach's treasures must remain.
Ah, you're right!
(May-03-2010, 09:38 AM (UTC))Chrischa Wrote: The only other time a drowned kitten appears in the books is Thick's image of himself, but that can't have anything to do with Kennit. Could it be that the beach gave Kennit the kittens to scare off the Other, so that he could escape with the earring and give it to Etta, to bind her to him?
I don't KNOW but it makes me a little nuts
, and you'd be surprised how many different times I've tried to come up with a connection between Thick and Kennit! I end up always coming back to the significance of the numbers for each of the items, more than the items themselves eg that there are six kittens, could mean there are six known regions within the realm - Rain Wilds, Cursed Shores (including the Pirate Isles), Jamailia, Six Duchies (including the Mountain Kingdom given that Kettricken and then Dutiful will inherit?), Out Islands (this could even be placed in with the Six Duchies and MK as, if all goes to plan, Dutiful's Prosper will inherit the lot!) and possibly Chalced (though this may be included in another region if there is a war with Chalced and it is taken over...seeing as there is always war with Chalced) - the six kittens stand for these and their potential Elderling rulership. The drowned kitten could possibly signify Kennit, and the passing on of the earring could signify his passing on of his 'kingship' to Etta for Paragon (Ludluck), who you would imgaine would also inherit the earring eventually? I am SO grasping at straws, I know, but what else can we do 
?!
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Lord Punctual - May-18-2010
I took something of a darker connotation from the serpent-baby. I reminds me of (spoiler for Dragon Haven) I don't think it's a direct correlation, but maybe more of a symbolic one. Even in Bingtown women sometimes have monstrous offspring, inviable babies born with serpent's tails or scales or claws or the wrong number of limbs. Perhaps this is a portent that symbolically, Etta will give rise to a "monstrous child" - namely, the cut throat mini-kingdom of the Pirate Isles.
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
SpoilerRE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Nuytsia - May-19-2010
Umm here I go again being picky, but could you pop a note as to what the spoiler is for.... I don't know if I'm asking for more than is generally required.... if so just ignore me!
It's just that I clicked it thinking oh it's probably something I already know seeing I've read every book except one..... and it turned out to be the one I haven't read! (unless I've REALLY missed something in Dragon Keeper..!!)
Wish I had some wisdom to share on what those beach treasures mean though!
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Lord Punctual - May-19-2010
Sorry about that, Nuytsia! That was inconsiderate of me. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that calling something "spoiler" in a series with 11 books is pretty vague.
Another thought occurred to me, about the poison fingernails. As dragons have venomous wing-claws (and venom in general is a pretty important part of their "society") do you suppose that poison holding false fingernails could have been an Elderling wardrobe accessory? (Or had everyone but me already figured that out?)
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Farseer - May-19-2010
(May-19-2010, 10:59 AM (UTC))Lord Punctual Wrote: Another thought occurred to me, about the poison fingernails. As dragons have venomous wing-claws (and venom in general is a pretty important part of their "society") do you suppose that poison holding false fingernails could have been an Elderling wardrobe accessory? (Or had everyone but me already figured that out?
Yes, I'd definitely considered your theory before
. The fingernails also made me think particularly of Fitz, given that they were suggested to have been used for storing poison...while this suggestion of poison is really only conjecture (Robin putting us even more off the scent!), if it proved true it could be a link with Fitz's use of poisons as an assassin, yes? One could say that, as a descendant of the Elderlings or the "dragon touched", or one who "dreamed of being a dragon", Fitz had possibly possessed a prediliction for the use of poison as a parallel for the use of poison by a serpent or dragon (granted it's a sketchy theory as no others seem to have this prediliction, or at least that I recall, besides Chade!). Yet another theory...rather than used for poison, could the hollowed tips have even been used to store Skill (the silver stuff!) direct from the Skill River? This could have possibly provided a means of protection for Elderlings when creating their particulalry spectacular artforms, while still enabling them to safely harness the Skill River's concentrated magic?
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Farseer - May-20-2010
(May-02-2010, 03:21 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: I wonder at even the significance of the colour of the bag that the kittens were found in: red and blue. This jumps out at me as I am sure that the serpents and dragons on the fabric of Fool’s Elderling-fashioned tent (taken to Aslevjal and then later used by he and Fitz when Fitz healed him in FF) were red and blue. Are the colours just a coincidence or something more?
* The ruby earring taken from the ear of “the runt” of the litter, which he later gave to Etta?
It has just occured to me that, aside from the colour of the kitten bag and Fool's Elderling tent, blue and red are also the colours of the earrings that seem to bear quite a bit of significance throughout the books. Red for the ruby one mentioned above, and also blue for the one which belonged to Burrich's grandmother, Burrich, Chivalry, Fitz and then Swift (and also Paragon's same blue earring). I am pretty sure Amber's wooden earrings were just the colour of wood but it would be interesting to discover if the serpent-shaped earring she wore was red and the dragon one blue!
Getting off track (nothing to do with Others Island) but sort of following that train of thought...blue and silver are predominant throughout the books also.
RE: Others Island (SPOILERS Farseer, LST & Tawny Man) - Nuytsia - May-20-2010
No worries Lord Punctual - I'm reading Dragon Haven now!! I can join the rest of the world soon
Goodness all these theories are amazing!
I had no clue at all re the fingernails.... or the other ones....