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hero enabler (spoilers all books) - Bink - Nov-23-2010
everyone knows the role of the catalyst is not to be the hero but to be the enabler of heroes.
AA - in this case, the presence of fitz actually removed a hero - chivalry and presented a new hero - verity.
RA - in this book, there was no mention of anyone brought out to be a hero. perhaps regal? some of the common folk regarded him as a hero but i'm not sure if fitz played any role in establishing the position of regal as hero. maybe in casting doubt over the reasons why he killed shrewd, he allowed regal's right to be king.
AQ - this was very clear in that he allowed verity (and even kettle) to function as heroes to the rescue of six duchies. even patience herself was established as a heroine in the defense of buckkeep. kettricken is clear to be presented as an heroine upon her return with verity-as-dragon. even the fool himself was a hero as he bestrode girl-on-a-dragon and led the remaining dragons to the resuce of buckkeep.
FE - in this case, lord golden was a hero of some form. but was it truly due to the actions of fitz? this is not so clear.
GF - i suppose dutiful was brought forth as a hero but again this is not so clear.
FF - now, the climatic finale has shown dutiful, burrich, swift, thick all to be regarded as heroes, especially by the outislanders. dutiful is seen as the leading force present to remove the threat of the pale woman, while burrich and swift are honoured as demon slayers and thick, why thick is known as eda's hands.
i'm not sure about chade. i felt chade also took on a role to enable others to be heroes and did not take on any such mantle on his own.
just to add on, from my sense in the books, the only time i felt fitz was regarded as 100% hero status was when kettricken's regard for him shared with dutiful - that she regarded him as true sacrifice and dutiful shared much of the same regard.
other than that, i never felt anyone else give that kind of feeling towards fitz. perhaps longwick? a long time soldier who understood political intrigue and what fitz has gone thru aid verity. and even honoured with him 'lord fitzchivalry' and undertook to remain silent. tagsson? he was one of the few who truly knew fitz deeds and sang as such.
chade, patience, burrich, web, molly, nettle, thick, verity, starling, mishap, black rolf, laurel, despite the good relationships he had with them, never truly regarded him as a hero. to most of them, he sort of a bad boy who refused to listen any advice whom they loved.
for a time, starling appeared to see fitz as a hero. but from the way she relates to him in FE onwards, i don't think she ever perceived him as a hero.
ofc the fool in his love could perceive fitz as the hero, that was kind of given to most readers.
PS: haven't been around for a bit but decided to pop in with some thoughts after re-reading the fool's trilogy for the umpteen time.
RE: hero enabler - Mervi - Nov-29-2010
This is all very interesting! I'm currently re-reading Royal Assassin so I'll try to keep this view point in my mind.
RE: hero enabler - Farseer - Nov-30-2010
Love your insights, Bink
!(Nov-23-2010, 07:58 AM (UTC))Bink Wrote: FF - now, the climatic finale has shown dutiful, burrich, swift, thick all to be regarded as heroes, especially by the outislanders. dutiful is seen as the leading force present to remove the threat of the pale woman, while burrich and swift are honoured as demon slayers and thick, why thick is known as eda's hands.
Yes, I think all members of the Wit Coterie were also honoured back in Buckkeep as kind of heroic for their roles in Aslevjal? Hmm...possibly this isn't the case but rather they were just formally introduced as an 'established' and true coterie then? I, too, will have to keep all of this in mind during further re-reads!
RE: hero enabler - Bink - Dec-01-2010
and in the end, fitz will be forgotten in pages of history. that is a bit frightening to think of, that for all his deeds, he will be forgotten.
no complete songs will be sang or complete tales to be shared to the public of his deeds in both the assassin's and tawny man's trilogy. he will be forgotten in a generation or two...
i took civil's impression of fitz to be the true defining perception of him "he was a man cheated of a legend, shown common earth when he had expected the gleam of gold".
even if kettricken or dutiful chose to acknowledge fitz as he truly was, who would welcome him as a hero?
RE: hero enabler - Farseer - Dec-01-2010
YES, I agree! I think this is why I love his character so much...knowing he performs these incredible, world-saving tasks but will never be fully acknowledged for them. True to life though, in my experience.
There are quite a few characters in the LST who are also made/viewed in the end as 'heroes'. A number of these I couldn't stand and that makes me feel for Fitz all the more
!Still, he did say "those closest to me know" and that was all that seemed to matter to him.
RE: hero enabler - Bink - Dec-01-2010
(Dec-01-2010, 08:46 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: YES, I agree! I think this is why I love his character so much...knowing he performs these incredible, world-saving tasks but will never be fully acknowledged for them. True to life though, in my experience.
There are quite a few characters in the LST who are also made/viewed in the end as 'heroes'. A number of these I couldn't stand and that makes me feel for Fitz all the more
Still, he did say "those closest to me know" and that was all that seemed to matter to him.
hmm, who did you feel should not be regarded as heroes?
RE: hero enabler - Farseer - Dec-01-2010
Possibly this link will provide you with a bit of an idea
*link to 'Which character is your favourite' has spoilers for all Hobb books*. No matter how many times I read these books, I find it too difficult to change my opinion on my least favourite characters, despite their personal growth and more than worthy contributions. I guess I'm a true grudge-keeper
!
RE: hero enabler - standingby - Dec-23-2010
(Dec-01-2010, 07:46 AM (UTC))Bink Wrote: and in the end, fitz will be forgotten in pages of history. that is a bit frightening to think of, that for all his deeds, he will be forgotten.
no complete songs will be sang or complete tales to be shared to the public of his deeds in both the assassin's and tawny man's trilogy...
Actually, the story of the Bastard is pretty widespread, although it's mostly the Witted who hold him in high regard. The Piebalds even hold him as a near-deity, if I'm remembering right. With the gradual acceptance of the Witted into the greater society, the way they see the Bastard can only improve.
Plus, there's always the Antler Island song. And I'm betting that before Starling passes away, she'll find some way to sing part of her song about Fitz's role in finding Verity.
RE: hero enabler - Farseer - Dec-28-2010
Well met and welcome to thePlenty, standingby. It's great to have you with us and apologies for not responding sooner
!(Dec-23-2010, 02:53 AM (UTC))standingby Wrote: Actually, the story of the Bastard is pretty widespread, although it's mostly the Witted who hold him in high regard. The Piebalds even hold him as a near-deity, if I'm remembering right. With the gradual acceptance of the Witted into the greater society, the way they see the Bastard can only improve. Plus, there's always the Antler Island song.
Yes, you're right, and that's a great point! Despite an overall lack of public accolade and acknowledgement (at least far less than the extent that some of us may have wished for!), there are definitely solid pockets of honour and affirmation that have been bestowed on Fitz to varying degrees. I think one of my favourite "hero moments" came along when we learned that [[Tagsson]] had bravely sung his song of "the true-hearted Witted Bastard" to Kettricken etc at Buckkeep.
(Dec-23-2010, 02:53 AM (UTC))standingby Wrote: And I'm betting that before Starling passes away, she'll find some way to sing part of her song about Fitz's role in finding Verity.
What a lovely thought! How interesting still would it be if Hap found something of the story in old notes that Starling may have accidentally given him, and it was he who, all unknowing of Tom's true identity, penned and performed the song
?!It is interesting to note that while Fool is granted lands etc (I think?) after his role in the Red Ships War, he, like Fitz, is not gifted with a "hero status" and this is despite both having such a pivotal and important role in the future of the entire world. If Fitz is a "hero enabler" as the Catalyst, this label could just as easily be worn by Fool as the White Prophet?
RE: hero enabler - Farseer - Jan-13-2011
I was busily cleaning the house yesterday, washing, vacuuming, polishing etc, and thought to myself something along the lines of, "Nobody would even notice that I did all this today. To everyone else, it's just the way it is/was, the way it's always been. It's seemingly insignificant in that my contribution in this could go unnoticed indefinitely, until the day that I wasn't here to do it."
Self-pity, you ask? No, I am appreciated by my family in all things.
I was rather thinking about this thread and how the main two heroes of the RotE, Fool and Fitz (as this generation's WP and Catalyst), go mostly about their business unnoticed as well, as we have already noted, but that lack of acknowledgement doesn't lessen their task OR their contribution.Certainly, if they were not present to create change and enable others to be heroes, what condition would the world then be in? Fool gives us a snapshot of what would have happened in his "stain down the shirt of the Six Duchies" vision. Not a good future by any definition!
And yet, for all of the sacrifice, changes made and the many heroes they enable, Fool, in all of his 'facets', suggests that while their task together is to change the course of the world, the ultimate goal is to have it so that the citizens of the realm say, "This is the way it has always been." In this, their significant contribution will be seemingly insignificant because life will actually appear unchanged.
