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Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - taloshield - Feb-22-2010
Hey Everyone! I have a few ideas and theories about the Elderlings and their creations. I have read all the Hobb books many times, so I will do my best to cite from the books, but if I am wrong let me know! I am just curious to see if what I think makes sense to other Hobb fans! And I apologize in advance for it being so long...
Basically I came to the conclusion that the Elderlings used the Skill or a variation of it to created all the wonderful art and objects with in the sunken cities as well as the mountain city.
It seemed to me that the Elderlings developed a Skill link with the dragons they were close with. Reyn, Malta, and Seldon had a mental link (very much like the Skill link from the Six Duchies) with the Dragon Tintaglia. What solidified this in my mind was after Seldon came to the Six Duchies he seemed to sense Fitz skill to Dutiful. And later when he spoke to Fitz, it seemed that during the conversation he skilled to Tintaglia.
The Elderlings came to be due to the close proximity they had to dragons, so I assume all Elderlings had this skill ability. Some most likely stronger than others.
I think this skill gave them the ability to create such wonderful works of art and objects. And the ability to bend the memory stone to their will more so than just creating temporary living beasts (like the ones that rest in the garden in the mountains). They used it as the walls in the sunken city, roads the mountains, as well as many other places.
I think they could bend some elements to their wills or be able to understand them so deeply that they could bring out characteristics in them that no one else can. For example the glowing power of jizdin or the sparkling of flame gems.
I assume they could do this with the skill because the Fool/Amber used his skill touched fingers to better understand wood and carve it in ways no one else could. And Verity, before he gave his sword to Fitz used the skill to make the blade sharp and new again only buy dragging his hand over it. This led me to believe that the reasons the Elderlings created such wonders was because they all had a skill ability, which they received from the proximity to Dragons. And once dragons left the world, so did the Elderlings, as well as their knowledge and ability to create such wonderful objects.
Let me know if this makes sense, if I am way off in my thinking, or if I am an idiot for only realizing this after reading them so many times!
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers) - Liquid Ice - Feb-24-2010
I haven't read the Liveship Traders yet so I may be a lil out but...
I pretty much agree with you, I believe The Fool gives an alright explanation of how people change near the end of The "Fools Fate". If you form a bond with a dragon then it can change you (though is this by the dragons will or just something that happens?) and you'll sort of become partners with it. And that this bond is some what despised by other dragons but the human will not only change physically but mentally. (I should prob go find his lil explanation =/ )
But yea I dunno if the skill is the only way to communicate with dragons. Not all people can hear dragons speak but is it said that the ones who can communicate have some form of skill potential? Would you need to communicate by mind to have a bond with a dragon? Or could you speak to it normally. Alise and Thymara from The Dragon Keeper were able to hear Sintara speak but then Sintara didn't really seem to care much for them.
Idk
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers) - Garetha - Feb-26-2010
Quote:The Elderlings came to be due to the close proximity they had to dragons, so I assume all Elderlings had this skill ability. Some most likely stronger than others.[/quote]
I think this skill gave them the ability to create such wonderful works of art and objects. And the ability to bend the memory stone to their will more so than just creating temporary living beasts (like the ones that rest in the garden in the mountains). They used it as the walls in the sunken city, roads the mountains, as well as many other places.
I think they could bend some elements to their wills or be able to understand them so deeply that they could bring out characteristics in them that no one else can. For example the glowing power of jizdin or the sparkling of flame gems.
I assume they could do this with the skill because the Fool/Amber used his skill touched fingers to better understand wood and carve it in ways no one else could. And Verity, before he gave his sword to Fitz used the skill to make the blade sharp and new again only buy dragging his hand over it. This led me to believe that the reasons the Elderlings created such wonders was because they all had a skill ability, which they received from the proximity to Dragons. And once dragons left the world, so did the Elderlings, as well as their knowledge and ability to create such wonderful objects.
Let me know if this makes sense, if I am way off in my thinking, or if I am an idiot for only realizing this after reading them so many times!
I agree that the Elderlings appear to have the 'Skill' to some extent, and use it to communicate with Dragons. I had reached the conclusion that Elderlings were evolved from Humans, such evolution occuring due to the Humans Skill-link with a Dragon and / or from a Dragon's Breath?. The demise of the Elderlings being therefore all but inevitable following the death of all Dragons from the world. The wonderful works of art that were created IMHO would then have resulted not only from Skill ability, but more from the vast wealth of memory available through Dragon's and memory stone. Centuries of knowledge passed from Dragon to Dragon, and also stored in memory stone, could be drawn on by the artists among the Elderlings in creation of ever more wonderful creations. What do you think?
Quote:If you form a bond with a dragon then it can change you (though is this by the dragons will or just something that happens?) and you'll sort of become partners with it. And that this bond is some what despised by other dragons but the human will not only change physically but mentally.
I don't think the Dragons despised the Elderlings, they looked on them more like pets, I think. I think they despised changes wrought on Dragons by their proximity to Humans - ie. the 'Others'.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers) - Liquid Ice - Feb-27-2010
At the start of Dragon Haven... (Minor bit from the new book but its more of a basic thought then a plot point)
Sintara trys to imagine Thymara and Alise as an Elderling but they both "lacked" the proper attitude towards dragons. That they had to share something with the dragon's way of thoughts.
So I don't think you need the skill to become an Elderling but you definitely need the complete respect from a dragon.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers) - Garetha - Mar-01-2010
(Feb-27-2010, 12:08 AM (UTC))Liquid Ice Wrote: At the start of Dragon Haven... (Minor bit from the new book but its more of a basic thought then a plot point)
Sintara trys to imagine Thymara and Alise as an Elderling but they both "lacked" the proper attitude towards dragons. That they had to share something with the dragon's way of thoughts.
So I don't think you need the skill to become an Elderling but you definitely need the complete respect from a dragon.
True, the Dragon would have to want to form a link with a Human / Elderling, so Alise and Thymara would have to earn Sintara's respect. Dragon's Breath then maybe - Sylve will be interesting to watch!!
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers) - miklc - Mar-13-2010
Didn't they imply the skill was a by-product left over from the method of communication between humans and dragons? I assume anyone a dragon chose to communicate with in that way would become "skilled." That would be interesting, more skilled people popping up.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers) - Liquid Ice - Mar-15-2010
(Mar-13-2010, 11:48 PM (UTC))miklc Wrote: Didn't they imply the skill was a by-product left over from the method of communication between humans and dragons? I assume anyone a dragon chose to communicate with in that way would become "skilled." That would be interesting, more skilled people popping up.
Yeaaaa I think I remember that, good point. So skilling isn't needed to talk to dragons but you can use it to communicate to them in one way or another. (as Nettle did)
So from Dragon Haven....
If you spend to much time around a dragon (even when its in wizard wood?) You'll start changing to an "Elderling" or at least sort of.
You can't become a full Elderling unless you guided by a dragon (Though I remember one dragon saying on rare occasions you don't need a dragon, but that's very rare)
A dragon controls the major affects of your physical traits. (Don't know about mental)
By "making" an Elderling the dragon goes through changes as well. (What exactly I don't remember)
There was also some information of abominations. I forget exactly what that was about. Something to do with the humans? Or the dragon? Or both, dunno.
Anyone remember?
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Mervi - Mar-15-2010
I edited the title of this thread a bit to warn about possible Dragon Haven spoilers.
The way I understand it, the Abominations aka the Others are the dragon equivalent of those Rain Wilders who were "touched" too heavily by the Rain Wilds (that is, the Elderling stuff/wizardwood). Sometimes dragons were in contact with the humans too much, and when their eggs hatched, out didn't come serpents but something else. What I find truly fascinating is that the Others are first mentioned all the way back in Assassin's Apprentice! I'm curious to know how much Robin had thought about them when they first appeared in the manuscript...
To think that the terrible, scary, repulsive creatures we met at the Other's island are basically subject to the same shunning as Thymara and her like makes you question whether they ARE that evil really, or just misunderstood and mistreated?
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Nuytsia - Mar-16-2010
That's my understanding of what the Others are too, and the thing I wondered about is why they seemed to have survived all through the almost complete destruction of dragons and the (temporary) extinction of the Elderlings.
I guess they are just much longer lived than Elderlings? Maybe they keep a dragon's lifespan despite being changed by human contact.
It was weird to find out what the 'Others' were when you knew what they did to She Who Remembers.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - chriSchaeffer - Mar-19-2010
(Mar-15-2010, 01:29 PM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: What I find truly fascinating is that the Others are first mentioned all the way back in Assassin's Apprentice! I'm curious to know how much Robin had thought about them when they first appeared in the manuscript...
The Others were mentioned in AA? I have no memory of that, could you give a brief description of what was said?