+- thePlenty.net Forums (https://theplenty.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Robin Hobb and Megan Lindholm (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Realm of the Elderlings (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) (/thread-100.html)
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Nuytsia - Jun-16-2010
I loved that thing!
Yes it is a strange example of wizardwood ....... who or what is in there and by what mechanism did it happen? Hmmmmm.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Mervi - Jun-16-2010
Hmm. Spoilers for [[The Inheritance]]
But wasn't Kennit's charm a previously unused piece? Or did I just assume that...
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
SpoilerRE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Nuytsia - Jun-17-2010
Oh so many hints in the short stories - I really have to get my hands on them!
I thought Kennit had the charm made for him? But I also am not sure, just going on (my sketchy) memory. He may have simply bought it already carved, in which case I guess we don't know the history?
I'm sure someone else will know or have the book handy!
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - maulkin - Jun-17-2010
I am fairly sure that Kennit had the charm carved specifically for him, although I am not sure whether it mentioned that the piece was previously unused.
The other thing that fascinated me was the skull-shaped wizardwood contraceptive charms worn by several female characters. These never showed any sign of sentience. I wonder how and why they actually worked?
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Farseer - Jun-19-2010
I agree, maulkin!!! I have spent the last few days thinking on that very thing! WHY, for an example, didn't Etta's skull quicken? She certainly had worn it for a lot longer than Kennit had worn his charm. Could it be that Kennit had Skill ability via his association with Paragon over the years (or as a result of being an Elderling descendent)? Etta etc did not have this ability/connection and therefore were not able to make a quickening occur?
As for Kennit's charm, yes, he did have it carved especially for him, and then killed the man who carved it to prevent any word of it being spread(despite the man not having any tongue!).
Was it used for another purpose? Yep, it was the cocoon of a dragon and it was this dragon's personality which existed in opposition to Kennit's characteristics
. I know this is obvious to all 
, and you all went (duh, I KNOW that!) but the charm does indirectly mention in quite a few places how and why it opposes Kennit...that it is a dragon. From what I understood, the personality of the charm is always that of its dragon after quickening. Possibly this has something to do with when a piece of wizardwood is carved and how? OR, maybe Paragon took on some of Fitz's personality traits via his association with Amber, not so much from the fact that he was simply carved to look like Fitz? Amber and he were close and had shared many memories and experiences, even memories of Fitz. At one point Paragon noted that he could see Fitz in his mind, as Amber talked of him and thought of him while she carved his image. Possibly something of Fitz had even passed through to Paragon via the Skill-link Amber shared with Fitz from her Skill-silvered fingers (which she also used to carve Paragon's face)?
While it could be said that Kennit's charm also shared Kennit's memories etc, and so therefore some exchanging of traits should take place, possibly the dragon of the charm was so sure of his own identity that he knew how to keep himself separate from Kennit (a bit like how Nighteyes and Fitz had learned to keep separate from each other?).
As for previous use, that's an interesting question for ALL pieces of wizardwood throughout the books eg did the wizardwood used for the wizardwood arrows (found by Althea in the stone dragon in The Barrens, or the one given to Swift by Fool) come undefiled or unfilled prior to being carved as an arrow, OR had it been used for some other purpose prior to carving...the mind boggles!
I LOVE this website
!!!!
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - maulkin - Jun-19-2010
The dragon personalities of the liveships seemed to become more dominant after contact with serpents, particularly serpent blood or venom. Was Kennit's charm splattered by the serpent that injured Kennit? If so, did it become more assertive thereafter?
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Mervi - Jun-19-2010
(Jun-19-2010, 04:25 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: WHY, for an example, didn't Etta's skull quicken? She certainly had worn it for a lot longer than Kennit had worn his charm.If by quickening you mean that it didn't work to prevent her pregnancy, she removed it after talking about it with Bolt, right?. Or do you mean that it never spoke to her like Kennit's charm did? I always got the impression that these contraceptive charms were REALLY tiny, like the size of a navel ring, so they weren't supposed to quicken/talk anyway.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Farseer - Jun-23-2010
Yes, it was the latter that I meant, Mervi (and, yes, Etta did take it off and give it to Bolt, who then digested it).
Etta's contraceptive charm was "the size of an apple pip" with a thin thread of wire that pierced her navel. As it was in the shape of a skull, I just imagined that it may have an ability to verbally communicate UNLESS, if the skull is merely painted on or there is no shaped 'mouth' then, it could be similar to the Tarman in that it is unable to 'talk', as such.
As far as size goes, that Bolt felt it important enough to digest, rather than discard, possibly suggests that size doesn't really matter with wizardwood (at least as far as its ability to store memory goes)? If it did, why would the dragons etc be concerned by the fact that humans strive to obtain even a sliver of it?
In saying that, possibly the size does affect the capacity for communicative ability? Etta also hires the charm from the owner of the brothel so that may be a factor as well?
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - maulkin - Jun-23-2010
(Jun-23-2010, 03:24 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: As it was in the shape of a skull, I just imagined that it may have an ability to verbally communicate UNLESS, if the skull is merely painted on or there is no shaped 'mouth' then, it could be similar to the Tarman in that it is unable to 'talk', as such.Many skulls are depicted simply as the cranium, without the lower jaw. If shaped in this way then the skull charm would still lack a mouth. A skull, even when in possession of its lower jaw, is unable to speak, lacking tongue, lips, lungs and brain. Perhaps a charm can only speak if it possesses features associated with speech. Skulls also lack eyes and ears, so perhaps the skull charms are deaf and dumb. Skulls are associated with death, which presumably allows the charms to kill the unborn offspring of their wearers. As to how they kill, the possibilities are quite disturbing. Perhaps they absorb the embryo's life force in a similar manner to the stone dragons or perhaps the proximity of wizardwood marks the embryo in a similar manner to the rainwilders, causing it to mutate to the point where it is no longer viable.
RE: Elderling Creations Theory (Spoilers through all the books and Dragon Haven) - Farseer - Jun-26-2010
I like your lines of reasoning, maulkin - nice
!