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+--- Thread: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) (/thread-12.html)
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RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - Farseer - Jan-12-2012
(Jan-12-2012, 01:56 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: Val recommends NOT reading Terry Goodkind, hahah. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Thanks for the warning!
I'll let you know if it's for me. 
(Jan-12-2012, 01:56 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: I am still slowly plodding along in Eragon. This one is my least favorite in the series (well, I haven't read the 4th one but I assume it's better), so it's hard to get through.
I experienced the same but needed to get it and the rest of the series done (!) so I can get back to concentrating on my RotE re-read!
For me, the start of the new school year is but a couple of days away and the last thing I felt like doing during my break was trudge through the kind of writing that I usually have to read and edit when I'm NOT on my break! For comments other than the writing itself, I will have to head to the fantasy thread one day not too far away...I have a gripe that belongs there... Just realised I haven't submitted my 2011 list yet...so much for my 'promise'!
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - Farseer - Jan-15-2012
Have crawled my way to page 413 of Brisingr but, while I am mostly enjoying certain elements of the 'story', I momentarily thought I was going to throw the book into the burning drum when I neared the end of page 246!
Still, I will save it for my upcoming rant in the fantasy thread when I finish the cycle...in the meantime, you may like to get your swords sharpened
or tomatoes ready (or whatever it is you like to wield when you wish to express your disagreement! 
).
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - 'thul - Jan-15-2012
How many pages total does your edition of brisingr have? These beings could not find anything strange on p246...
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - Farseer - Jan-15-2012
Pipe down, Farseer! Relax and just enjoy the cycle for 'the story' it is without having to analyse (or compare!!) things!! *sigh* I think I'm prepared to leave off with my rant and do just that.
@'thul: my edition has 748 pages (not including the extra 'bits') but the section I refer to is:
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
Spoiler
Not ranting
but just to explain...that this, with other things like "Come to me" and "I am content", was almost enough to push me over the edge after reading the RotE books so thoroughly. I know these things appear elsewhere but...Of course, it's all made worse with the storyline and other elements that mimic so many other fantasy stories. I know that most fantasy works are retreads and all but...
...and here I am doing it all again as per my Brent Weeks rant, which I had to take back after AR's persuasive responses. This is far, far worse though, I think. Almost as if Paolini wanted to include references to all of his favourite fantasy stories and characters in the one story. Maybe he did and so maybe it's deliberate? I know, I know...take my own advice as per my opening paragraph. Heading back to Brisingr and taking it not so seriously and with no more grumbling...
I am mostly enjoying it regardless of my comments.
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - 'thul - Jan-15-2012
Ahh... did not notice that one when looking at the page this morning...
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - Valarya - Jan-16-2012
(Jan-15-2012, 12:21 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: ....it's all made worse with the storyline and other elements that mimic so many other fantasy stories.
This is my biggest gripe with Paolini. He brings some of his own creativity and imagination to the table, but mostly it's just so stolen. Even down to the fact the Elves came over to this land on White/Grey ships.
Seriously, Paolini? Really?(Jan-15-2012, 12:21 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: I know that most fantasy works are retreads and all but...
No. No they really aren't. I don't think it's fair to SO many wonderful fantasy authors out there to use this excuse for Paolini. I have been reading fantasy novels most of my life, and I've read a lot of them. While some themes are similar throughout certain works, you never really feel as if entire ideas are out-right stolen like you do when you read Paolini.
(Jan-15-2012, 12:21 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: This is far, far worse though, I think. Almost as if Paolini wanted to include references to all of his favourite fantasy stories and characters in the one story. Maybe he did and so maybe it's deliberate?
I don't think it was deliberate at all. I think he was just young, and gained so much popularity he just went with it. He's definitely more talented than MANY young people I know, but yes. These are all of my major problems with his series as well, hahah.
I have a feeling I won't be getting around to book 4 any time soon. Let me know how it is compared to the first 3?
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - 'thul - Jan-16-2012
Actually, there's a number of pointers in his works to things he's taken from elsewhere... So it is quite possibly intentional...
The dwarven city "Tronjheim" is essentially the misspelled name for a Norwegian city that has several spellings on its name. (main ones are: trondheim, trondhjem)
Oh, and 'thul are in another argumentative mood...
Paolini's elves started out elsewhere on some other continent and came across the seas to where dragons lived. By ship yes, but what options were there really?
Tolkien's elves started out in middle earth, then were invited to Valinor by the Valar before later returning to middle earth by way of ships built in some particular style.
The differences are great and apparent even in just those two short phrases.
In tolkienverse elves start out east, then go west then east. Humans start out east, go shorter distance west then stop. In Paoliniverse, elves start west then go east. Humans start out west then go east. Dwarves do not show a distinctive population-wide movement in either world.
There are traits borrowed from other works of fantasy, but they are not unchanged. true theft would be to simply cut parts of a story and lay claim to it before using it.
'thul were particularly pleased with the intimate details of a certain trade given in brisingr (unspoiling link: see name of book. If you've read it, you probably know which situation it is)
Book 4 has a number of traits that are even more unique than those used in the preceding ones... A good part of it can probably be attributed to the fact that he has developed further as an author. Also, as a story builds up, it will grow on its own.
oh, and 'thul will give an argument for why all stories are essentially the same... Its silly, but its there:
All stories are, when boiled down fully, a fight of good vs. evil/right vs. wrong. It might not be named so, but that is the essence of it all.
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - Valarya - Jan-16-2012
(Jan-16-2012, 11:08 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: Paolini's elves started out elsewhere on some other continent and came across the seas to where dragons lived. By ship yes, but what options were there really?
The option is to completely leave out the history of the elves and just say they'd been around longer than humans and no one knows from whence they came.
(see what i did there?)(Jan-16-2012, 11:08 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: In tolkienverse elves start out east, then go west then east. Humans start out east, go shorter distance west then stop. In Paoliniverse, elves start west then go east. Humans start out west then go east.
Okay 'thul beings... now you're just getting nit-picky, lol.
(Jan-16-2012, 11:08 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: Book 4 has a number of traits that are even more unique than those used in the preceding ones... A good part of it can probably be attributed to the fact that he has developed further as an author.
Ahh, good. I figured he would have grown much as a writer and had hoped book 4 was the best. This gives me high hopes.
(Jan-16-2012, 11:08 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: oh, and 'thul will give an argument for why all stories are essentially the same... Its silly, but its there:
All stories are, when boiled down fully, a fight of good vs. evil/right vs. wrong. It might not be named so, but that is the essence of it all.
Except Martin! Hahah
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - 'thul - Jan-16-2012
oh? is it not a fight of right vs. wrong?
Martin may have many viewpoints, but that does not change the fact that each part is just such a fight.
Also, is not the whole story a fight of good vs. evil?
Those fire-worshippers and the White walkers... If warmth vs. cold is not a symbol here for good & Evil, then what is it?
By boil down, 'thul mean boil down completely. Boiled down to the point where it is no longer characters, but instead forces. Each of those forces change the balance in the equation slightly. Some directly by heaping weight on one side of the scales, others by moving weights around on the plates, changing how much a weight affects the balance.
RE: What are you reading right now? (possible RotE spoilers) - Valarya - Jan-16-2012
(Jan-16-2012, 02:38 PM (UTC))thul Wrote: Also, is not the whole story a fight of good vs. evil?
Those fire-worshippers and the White walkers... If warmth vs. cold is not a symbol here for good & Evil, then what is it?
Martin pulls more from history and RL than any sort of ideas from the typical fantasy genre. In which case, you can't think of it as good vs. evil at all.
That would be like saying the War between the US and Iraq was a force of good vs. evil. It absolutely isn't. They're both good in their ways, and they're both evil. It all depends on where you're standing. Always.
It's why we have POV chapters from the Stark army and the Lannister army. The Iron throne and all the other thrones. To show you that it always depends on where you're standing.....
In Martin's world.. who says the fire-worshippers (Red Priests of R'hllor) are the good side? Who says warmth is good?
Bran & the 3EC are in the cold and darkness and they certainly aren't forces of evil.
One learns one can never make typical assumptions of Martin's work.