+- thePlenty.net Forums (https://theplenty.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Robin Hobb and Megan Lindholm (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Realm of the Elderlings (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: SPOILERS FARSEER/TAWNY MAN BOOKS - Moonseye (/thread-120.html)
SPOILERS FARSEER/TAWNY MAN BOOKS - Moonseye - Farseer - Apr-01-2010
****SORRY, SPOILERS FROM THE TAWNY MAN BOOKS ALSO!!!*****
In AA, and a few other places, Fitz outlines the events leading up to his grandfather leaving him at the military outpost at Moonseye. It was from here that Fitz begins his memories. He says, "Before that, there is nothing,...Prior to that day at Moonseye, there is nothing. But on that day they suddenly begin, with a brightness and detail that overwhelms me."
So, Fitz obviously remembers his grandfather but the actual details are sketchy...he was tall and old with a huge, rough (calloused) grip that was warm and firm but not unkind.
Later in AQ, when Fitz is holed up in the jail in Moonseye (before he is freed by Nighteyes, Kettle and Starling), he is supervised by an old man who knew his identity and knew his father, Chivalry. Looking startled at Fitz when he took him a meal, the old man said, "You've your father's voice as well as his eyes."
Could this old man have actually been Fitz's grandfather?
Points in favour of this theory could include that the old man seemed to have a particular, personal dislike for Chivalry. In reply to Fitz saying that he had never known Chivalry, the old man said," Count your blessings, then. Knowing the prince was not the same as liking him. Stiff as a stick he was. Rules and orders for us, while he was out making bastards. Yes, I knew your father. I knew him too well for my comfort." From this, I believe that his anger stems from the fact that it was HIS daughter, Fitz's mother, who Chivalry was with...it seems more of a personal anger than that which would normally be directed?
Another point is that, while it does say at times (particularly in FF when he is given back his memories by the Fool) that his family lived on farming land and were farmers, it also does say that Fitz's grandfather was a Buckkeep guard who had been stationed at Mooneye prior to marrying a mountain woman.
The only point I can see that the old man may NOT have been his grandfather is that Fitz seemed to remember him well from when he was six and taken to Moonseye in AA and so, surely, would have remembered the old man again in AQ. Or, could it have been that Fitz simply no longer remembered, much as what happened when he couldn't recall the name 'Keppet' or either of the two mountain women (his mother and obviously his grandmother) who fought together in the markets at Buckkeep Town?
Fitz's grandfather or not? What do you think? To me, it seems a sneaky little thing that RH would slip in with little else for us to go on!!
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Albertosaurus Rex - Apr-01-2010
I have wondered the same thing too. I tried to get a message to Hobb via the Voyager UK website years ago - they stated that if you sent them mail for the aithors, they would forward it - but never heard back. (But that site's maintenance sucked anyway. There was stuff like the FAQ page going blank and me mailing them about it over the course of a year and them never getting around to fix it. The new site is pretty poor too.)
Fitz might not recognize his own grandfather because he only has very vague memories from long ago of him. I guess we'll never know for sure, unless someone can get RH to conform or deny it. (But then again, perhaps she did intend for it to remain nebulous.)
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Liquid Ice - Apr-01-2010
Yea thats prob one of them things that we'll never get to know. Stuiped authors leaving the readers to think and make our own conclusions
I'd say yes it was. But really it's all speculation.
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Mervi - Apr-01-2010
I don't think this theory if far-fetched, after all we have a similar encounter with Fitz's mother where it's left for the reader to connect the dots while poor Fitz is completely clueless.
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Albertosaurus Rex - Apr-01-2010
Fitz's mother? Where? When?
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Mervi - Apr-01-2010
I hate to spoil this for you.
Check out AA chapter 6 and see if you can find it. We got the confirmation in FF when Fitz gets his memories (and his true name) back. But it's all there in the first book.
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Nuytsia - Apr-09-2010
Just another reason I have to re-read ........!
Once I get and read Dragon Haven that is
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Farseer - Jun-03-2010
Not related to Moonseye but it is where it all started!
Why did Fitz's mother never seek him out? She obviously loved him and didn't want him to leave. Her actions in the passage we have already touched on (above) showed that she would have gone to Fitz if she was able.
Did she not know where he was taken? Or did she know but something prevented her from finding him, making contact with him? At the very least, she knew he was in Buck from when she saw him (again, above), even if she didn't know that her father had first taken him to Moonseye...
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER BOOKS - Moonseye - Nuytsia - Jun-03-2010
I did wonder this!
I agree it seems she didn't want him to be taken away, but his grandfather did. We'd need to know what was going on there...... I just presumed they were really poor and grandpa resented no help from Chivalry in bringing up the child.
But even that seems wrong - surely Chivalry would at least have provided financially for his son??
Maybe the mountain kingdom has some weird custom where his mother couldn't remarry if she had a child from another relationship (clutching at straws) and grandpa wanted her to be able to marry some guy she loved there???? (yep really reaching now)
It seems equally unlikely she wouldn't know where Fitz was given who Chivalry was... ?
Hmmmm I can't recall how widely it was known that Chivalry had a bastard child. Maybe Fitz's mother was worried about 'letting the secret out' by going to 6D in pursuit of Fitz. Would have been a bit hard for her to find him without telling people who she was (it's not like just anyone can rock up and talk to the prince without going through a lot of underlings). Again, seems a bit of a lame reason not to be reunited with your child.
Maybe just one of those silly 'oh he's better off there being well provided for and we should just cut all ties with him, it would be better for him'.
RE: SPOILERS FARSEER/TAWNY MAN BOOKS - Moonseye - RZ - Jun-06-2010
(Jun-03-2010, 06:42 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Did she not know where he was taken? Or did she know but something prevented her from finding him, making contact with him? At the very least, she knew he was in Buck from when she saw him (again, above), even if she didn't know that her father had first taken him to Moonseye...
She did know that he was taken to Moonseye at least, as she was there pleading with her father whilst he held Fitz's hand before the gate. He throws some snow and ice at her, if I recall correctly, to keep her back?
As for why she never tried to seek him out... Personally, I'm not so sure that she didn't try. She made her appearance in Buck those few years later, and I suspect it was because she'd eventually tracked him down. But by then, Shrewd had claimed him and decided to train him as an assassin... I almost wonder if perhaps he chose not to return him to his mother? The way he sees Fitz as a tool and a weapon, I can easily see Shrewd deciding not to let him go. So, maybe she stayed in Buck hoping to perhaps catch him the way she did... but it was bad luck that Fitz didn't recognise her? There's no evidence of any of that, but it's still something I've considered!
As for the old guard in Moonseye, I did wonder this myself! There's certainly all those things you mentioned to support the idea. Not recognising his grandfather is also very possible - as in that first chapter, he seems to pay very little attention to him apart from his hand and his grip. Add to that his lack of any previous memories, it's not a stretch to think he'd forget.
One thing though, is that while his anger does seem very personal, it's also possible that he's simply one of Chivalry's soldiers. It's often mentioned that he wasn't too good with other men, being so orderly and disciplined, and like the old man suggests - he and other soldiers probably didn't like him. Anger could also stem from simply being around Fitz and the reputation he had. They were meant to hate him, believing him cursed, dangerous, and a traitor.
Still, I do think the old man could be his Grandfather.. It certainly would be like Robin Hobb to hide a small thing like that for us to try and find!