+- thePlenty.net Forums (https://theplenty.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Robin Hobb and Megan Lindholm (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Realm of the Elderlings (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? (/thread-19.html)
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - n00854180t - Oct-19-2009
(Jan-06-2009, 12:32 PM (UTC))maulkin Wrote: The flip side of this discussion is the question of who should be allowed to possess the Skill or the Wit.I personally don't think the Wit could be reasonably said to be a threat to national security in general, at least, not on the magnitude that even a single trained Skill user could be (speaking mainly of untrained Wit users, though, and trained it could be quite powerful). However, I also doubt that most Wit users would even be inclined toward espionage, if the general population/monarchy were not already against their existence.
With regard to the Skill, individuals don't seem to develop their abilities to any great extent without training. This allowed the Kings of the Six Duchies to restrict Skill training to themselves and their loyal coteries. This is understandable given the threat to the monarchy and the kingdom posed by rogue skill users. However, it also led to the near extinction of the Skill during Shrewd's reign. Can the complete suppression of knowledge ever be justified on the grounds of national security?
With regard to the Wit, even untrained individuals seem to develop their abilities to a certain extent. Indeed, attempts to suppress the abilities of the witted (such as Burrich's attempt to suppress the Wit in Fitz, Swift and himself) appear to be unsuccessful. This means that the only way to restrict the Wit is to kill the witted. I imagine that most people will agree with me that genocide cannot be justified on the grounds of national security, but that leaves the problem of how a society copes with people who spontaneously develop powerful supernatural abilities.
As to the original question I think I'd prefer to be a solo Skill user, and would almost certainly use it to excess, and go off to Jhaampe-town in my old age to lose myself in the Skill-river and/or try to carve a Skill-dragon.
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - Farseer - Apr-21-2010
If I had either, I'd use them...I think Burrich, Fitz and Verity were in a fire-side discussion at one point, after Fitz's traumatic event with the little girl, and Verity's reponse to a question from Burrich was something like, "We need to use whatever is available to us..."
In saying that, I wouldn't like to have either the Wit or the Skill...sure, I like wolves and horses (not to mention dragons!) but to actually bond with an animal? No, not for me. As for the Skill, I'd be far too suspicious and untrusting to ever be able to let my guard down for such a sharing to occur, family or no. As Fitz also displayed an overly suspicious personality, I always found it a bit of a paradox that he was so open and sensitive to the Skill...I guess "blood will tell"!
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - Manephelien - Apr-21-2010
I would use the talent if I had it. I'm not a pack person, so if I had the Skill I'd work solo, and if I had the wit I'd probably bond with a cat of some sort. A lynx would be nice. I definitely can't see myself putting my king before my family, however.
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - Syrocko - Jun-14-2010
In a heartbeat I'd love to have either ability. They both allow you to do such amazing, life-enhancing things.
I'm also surprised the the idea of Skill-suicide hasn't occurred to anybody. I would certainly be tempted. Allowing oneself to get lost in the Skill currents doesn't sound bad at all. You get to live eternally in a state of ultimate euphoria, free from the troubles of mind and body. Sounds almost like heaven.
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - Farseer - Jun-19-2010
You raise an interesting point and WELCOME to thePlenty, Syrocko
!***To save myself having to put spoiler codes through every couple of sentences, my post contains spoilers for all books except RWC.***
I know that Fitz etc often thinks about succumbing to the 'appeal' of the Skill River and I wonder if it was this release that he thought of when he contemplated suicide (as a consequence of on-going and constant bad dreams) during his visit to The Cursed Shores. What easier way to suicide?!
Certainly, Althea definitely thought of it, though she didn't/doesn't realise that her connection with Vivacia etc was anything Skill-related, as I believe it to be...she just thought she would 'let go'.
Still, I wonder if it is as simple as just 'letting go' and thereafter all is wonderful, as Fitz suggests? That you lose your sense of self and become part of something greater and therefore lose all sense of time and connection, and you are content with this (if you are even aware of being content or not content at all?!)?
If it IS the case, then it could well be the way to go BUT what if what happens is the same as what happens to the dragons within the liveships? What if, once you succumb to the Skill, you do lose your sense of self, connection etc and you do become part of something greater BUT you are aware that you have lost it...you are pushed down into the darkness whilst the greatest of the personalities within the Skill dominates it?
An example of this would be how Bolt felt as the suppressed personality and then, in turn, Vivacia, when Vivacia was finally overpowered by Bolt. It was only when both were able to have their existence acknowledged that they both felt significant and content.
Would losing oneself in the Skill have a similar outcome? Wouldn't losing oneself in the Skill in effect be like allowing oneself to be dominated by a more powerful personality or personalities? Even Verity told Fitz that when he went into his dragon, the dragon would be him, not him and Kettle. In this, it seems to me that Kettle, though also giving of her whole self to the dragon, chose the role of the submissive personality within a memory stone form (as opposed to a wizardwood or pure Skill form).
In saying all of that, it is interesting to note that Fitz could tell that King Wisdom's connection with the world had significantly faded over time. He had truly become his stone 'dragon'....with this example, it could be said that possibly in all forms of Skill, wizardwood or memory stone, every being does eventually end up finding that disconnected, though euphoric, state.
I suppose, in the end, if one becomes so completely disconnected from all they know, they are entirely without the capacity to realise what they have lost eg it took some time for Fitz to realise that he had things to go back to when he was suspended within the Skill for a month, prior to his return to Buckkeep from Aslevjal. Losing oneself in the Skill would literally be like suicide/death...while you would go on 'existing' within the Skill River, you would be aware of nothing and so therefore would long for or miss nothing? Neither would you be euphoric, I wouldn't think...you'd just 'be'...?
As with most times, I haven't given any real thought to my responses here (have had no internet connection for a while so I needed to involve myself in a thread as soon as I could, to appease my out-of-control withdrawal symptoms
!!). It is all very interesting though, and will give me much to think about (like my mind isn't already crowded with riddles and theories?!).
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - maulkin - Jun-19-2010
Nice ideas, Farseer. What strikes me is how similar these ideas are to those of Buddhism, although from a Buddhist point of view, the self is illusory and losing attachments is, by definition, a euphoric state and something to strive towards. I wonder whether the entities of the Skill river (and perhaps also the stone dragons) might be seen as analogous to the Bodhisattvas of Buddhist mythology; beings who have postponed personal release in order to benefit others (or the World in general) through their wisdom. The philosophy of the Mountain Kingdom (in particular, the role of the Sacrifice) also seems to have Buddhist undertones.
RE: If you had the Skill or the Wit, would you use it? - Syrocko - Jun-28-2010
I really like both of the last 2 responses, and I think I agree with most of what you said. I would apply to it the the buddist philosophy that suffering comes from expectation, and the ultimate state is the blissful ignorance they call nirvana. So a person who loses themselves in the Skill usually cannot exist independently because there is not enough of them, and must become part of another, larger entity, as Fitz is told by the higher being. However, if they just let go and remain content with this, then perhaps they may attain eternal bliss at the expense of their free will. I also find it interesting that the higher being implies that a human soul CAN exist independently in this otherworldly realm but that Fitz was not able at this time. Also that Fitz mentions that he could sense Verity's presence in the Skill currents when he almost get lost there. So we can assume that Verity-as-dragon is not just in a senseless hibernation but still present and conscious in the Skill currents. He can presumably still be brought back to his dragon, and thus must somehow be anchored there. Is this why he is able to retain his individuality in the Skill? Or is it because there was "enough" of him to be his own entity? Or both? Do you need to be Skilled to end up in the Skill currents or does everyone go there when they die? I wonder also if an underlying message is that the nature of our afterlife depends on what we did with our lives, how much we made of ourselves.