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+--- Thread: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you (spoilers all RotE books) (/thread-194.html)
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Farseer - Aug-29-2010
(Aug-24-2010, 12:34 PM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: I also forgot to add that the Mountain Kingdom has its own language too - Fitz clearly mentions this is in AA and Kettricken refers to it again later.
Yes, just came across a reverse example of this in AQ, when Fitz was 'coming to' with the arrowhead in his back in the MK (I went to look for something altogether different but had to keep reading...can't put them down once I pick them up!!!):
" 'Easily,' the woman replied. I realised she was speaking the tongue of Buck, with a Mountain accent."
In this, Fitz noted that the woman was not speaking in the Mountain tongue, as he'd expected, but was instead speaking in the tongue of Buck, with a Mountain accent...confirming, along with Mervi's other examples, that there is a difference between the two.
Another quick question
(I have LOTS!) ...Do you think Queen Constance could have been Witted? I know that word in the Six Duchies has it that Fitz's Wit had come down to him through the Farseer line via the Piebald Prince but we were also told, I think via Fitz himself, that the Farseer line via the PP had been broken and therefore this could not hold true...therefore it had to come from his mother's side.
While I have mostly assumed that Fitz inherited his Wit from his Mountain mother, it doesn't seem to me to be such a stretch that Constance, also from the Mounatins, could have been Witted (especially as even Kettricken has shown herself to be Witted and from the Mountains?). Certainly it seems that neither Chivalry nor Verity had the Wit (ah, that we know of
..Verity never seemed bothered about Fitz having it!) but who is to say that it didn't skip a generation to Fitz...possibly he may have even been given the magic from BOTH of his parents?Why do I think this possibility of Queen Constance, besides her Mountain connection? Her cat, Hisspit, niggles at me
...!
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Mervi - Sep-01-2010
Wait what? [[Constance]] was from the Mountains?? Our wiki claims she has roots in Shoaks and Bearns, do you have contradictory information?
I've always just assumed Fitz' Wit came from his mother, as so many of the Mountain folk seem to be Witted (they just call it ~meditation~
) - I'm pretty sure not only Kettricken but also Rurisk had it, although neither of them are especially strong in it, possibly because they're unaware of what can be done/haven't been trained. (And of course we consider them to not be very strongly witted, because we always compare everything to Fitz, who is super strong in both of his magics.)
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Farseer - Sep-01-2010
(Sep-01-2010, 11:34 AM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: Wait what? [[Constance]] was from the Mountains?? Our wiki claims she has roots in Shoaks and Bearns, do you have contradictory information?
I'd trust the wiki before me as that was a 'memory' not a 'finely researched addition'...I have so much in my head I'd tell you anything ...off to check on Constance before I read another thing!!!!
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Farseer - Sep-06-2010
(Sep-01-2010, 11:34 AM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: Wait what? [[Constance]] was from the Mountains?? Our wiki claims she has roots in Shoaks and Bearns, do you have contradictory information?
Just confirming for others in this thread that Constance DIDN'T come from the Mountains
but DID have roots in Shoaks and Bearns as she was 'very much of the Coastal folk'. Still, it was her relationship with Hisspit that interested me more than anything, particularly given that Dutiful went on to have a hunting cat, and I'm pretty sure that cats were quite rare at Buckkeep even at the time of Constance?
(Sep-01-2010, 11:34 AM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: I'm pretty sure not only Kettricken but also Rurisk had it, although neither of them are especially strong in it, possibly because they're unaware of what can be done/haven't been trained.
Yes, the way Nosy reacted at Rurisk's death makes it appear highly likely.
Of course, Fitz mentioned once or twice that he thought all creatures had the
Wit to some ability (when he gave the instance of a mother and her baby).
Which leads me to another two questions but I will pop them in their appropriate threads, I think!
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Nuytsia - Sep-12-2010
Here's one:
I'm not sure exactly what Fitz is referring to when, at the end of Assassin's Apprentice (the last chapter before the Epilogue) he says:
"I think I finally guessed then what the earring signified" (p 455 of the book I have here)
This is when he's talking to Burrich about what to do next .......
I have an idea what it could mean, but as Fitz doesn't know what the earring is at that point, I'm not sure what is implied that FItz thinks it signfies?
Minor point re a previous post: 'Chade Fallstar' is first mentioned in Assassin's Apprentice in one of the chapter introductions - Chapter 18. It doesn't tell us how he got the name though.
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Nuytsia - Oct-14-2010
Oooh don't worry, silly me, it's explained at the start of the next book, Royal Assassin.
That is kind of a weird thing though. There's that chapter I referred to above near the end of AA, but then there's another section in the next book written differently but basically covering the same action.... sort of a strange way of doing things. In the second book he didn't 'guess' what the earring signified, Burrich directly TOLD him. But I am pretty sure it was the same conversation .... unless I'm totally misguided.
Hey so what would have happened if Patience had decided to wear the earring herself because she thought it was pretty? HAH what then Burrich???? THAT would have been interesting.
(I'm presuming she didn't realise what it meant to Burrich or she wouldn't have given it to Fitz?? .... or did she? Darn you Robin Hobb I can never be sure what these characters are capable of!)
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Mervi - Oct-14-2010
I believe Patience knew the significance of such earrings AND the history of that particular one very well indeed. I've no proof though, this is just based on what I think of her character based on everything that happens in the books. She's a sly old fox who hides her wisdom and wit behind the mask of "oh I'm so shy and socially uncomfortable and really eccentric don't mind me".
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Farseer - Oct-26-2010
I agree, Mervi...Patience hides her intelligence very well (it's not only Fitz and Fool etc who can act their roles brilliantly
!), and she is one of my favourite characters because of it.Ok, here's a burning question: ah, LOTS of spoilers for Tawny Man coming up...am I needing spoiler tags or are we assuming people have read all the books by now?
It's been pretty well documented here on thePlenty that quite a few readers (NOT me!) feel that Fitz is a bit of a whinger, and a negative sort of a personality than most 'heroes' tend to be. While some of this has been attributed to his having been partly Forged at the end of AQ (when he put his memories in Girl-on-a-Dragon), what about the effects that Galen's Skill suggestion/command/imprint had on him when he was training?
Dutiful was finally able to reverse Fitz's Skill command that was accidentally placed on him on Others Island, though Fitz didn't know how he'd undone it in the beginning and, as far as I remember, Dutiful didn't ever fully divulge to Fitz how he had achieved it. Or did he?
Also, as far as I can tell, Fitz has remained under Galen's imprinted Skill command throughout the entire story so far and, yet, has been powerful in the Skill despite the command's presence and the negativity it has no doubt wrought in him.
Am I wrong? Did Fitz ever shed the command?
Could the command, as well as his sensitivity to the Skill and also his temporary Forging, be a further reason why Fitz is often suseptible to emotions such as despair and suicidal thoughts at times? Verity, and even Fool, had experienced the 'downer' of elfbark but I don't think they ever truly reached the low points that Fitz often did? On the Skill Road, Fitz did think Fool's harsh demeanor had been a result of the elfbark but I got the idea that much of his mood could be attributed to Regal and co? *straining to recall*
Fitz also had a number of suicidal thoughts, some of which we've touched on before - one that was put down to the actual Skill command from Galen (when Fitz thought about throwing himself off the edge of the Queen's Garden...how strong he must be in the Skill to have been able to turn aside from that?!)), one was put down to the bad dreams and negative effect of the Rain River/Cursed Shores during his trip down to Bingtown and yet another was put down to a massive elfbark downer he experienced after he'd lost his Skill on Aslevjal.
While all of these reasonings are no doubt accurate, possibly the presence of the Skill command could well have left an on-going and permanent negative imprint on him - one that makes him question his self-worth and abilities as an undercurrent to his life (a bit like the ever-present music of Thick's?)? If a similar command left him with no option but to let Burrich die (as Burrich was also still under the influence of Chivalry's own Skill command), what consequences has or will Fitz also have to suffer?
Anyway, back to the main point of the question...Fitz may have recovered his memories but did he ever shed Galen's Skill command?
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Farseer - Oct-26-2010
Just having a flick through RA and, after Verity has tired of dreaming about 'Lady Red-Skirts', he says to Fitz: "I suppose it springs from what Galen did to you. Would we could undo that..." . As strongly Skilled as Verity was, he couldn't reverse the Skill command either. I think I also recall that it is mentioned somewhere that Chivalry himself had possibly tried to undo his Skill command on Burrich but was unable to (will have to check to confirm/deny this point).
Maybe all of this could suggest that possibly a) Chivalry and Galen were so srongly Skilled that their commands stuck indefinitely, and Fitz didn't do as good a job on Dutiful or b) Fitz's command was strong but Dutiful was stronger in the Skill and so able to reverse it ? Still pondering...
RE: Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you - Nuytsia - Oct-27-2010
(Oct-26-2010, 02:38 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Also, as far as I can tell, Fitz has remained under Galen's imprinted Skill command throughout the entire story so far and, yet, has been powerful in the Skill despite the command's presence and the negativity it has no doubt wrought in him.
Hmm I thought Verity removed it from Fitz when he first went to him in the tower, and that's the reason Fitz was able to Skill? Although your quote below from Verity seems to suggest otherwise. I don't have AA to check! Maybe Verity partially removed it??
I am fairly certain that after Galen put that suggestion there Fitz had NO ability to Skill, then Verity tinkered with his head, then Fitz got the ability to Skill in a broken type way? Wasn't that how it went? Prior to that Fitz thought 'oh poor me I stink at the Skill, Galen's not such a bad sort' And then when Verity did whatever to him he *remembered* what Galen had done. I am guessing Verity's intervention was a partial success only.
I certainly think residual effects of Galen's tinkering couldn't have helped Fitz's state of mind, but there were probably many contributing factors such as elfbark addiction which you also mentioned. His natural personality and being treated like a tool by pretty well everyone he ever met must not have helped either.
On re-reading AA I was particularly struck by how needy Fitz was from the very beginning. Although he had a 'troubled' relationship with Burrich he craved his approval, and then when he met Chade he craved HIS approval. His reaction to the incident with the knife and Chade not calling for him for a while was a case in point. He was Devastated! He even felt privileged that the Fool decided to talk to him! (and he was generally considered a kook by all and sundry)
I hadn't recalled all that until I re-read.
(Oct-26-2010, 02:38 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Fitz also had a number of suicidal thoughts, some of which we've touched on before - one that was put down to the actual Skill command from Galen (when Fitz thought about throwing himself off the edge of the Queen's Garden...how strong he must be in the Skill to have been able to turn aside from that?!)), one was put down to the bad dreams and negative effect of the Rain River/Cursed Shores during his trip down to Bingtown and yet another was put down to a massive elfbark downer he experienced after he'd lost his Skill on Aslevjal.
Yes, and even I think at the end of AA ? There's an indication that the narrator (ie Fitz) wants to end it all .... (with an overdose) ..it makes some reference to a voice saying 'No' (not sure if that is meant to be Nighteyes?)
To be honest I don't blame Fitz for feeling that way when considering what he's gone though! Skill command or not! But there is the possibility it is at least partly to blame....
(Oct-26-2010, 03:54 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Maybe all of this could suggest that possibly a) Chivalry and Galen were so srongly Skilled that their commands stuck indefinitely, and Fitz didn't do as good a job on Dutiful or b) Fitz's command was strong but Dutiful was stronger in the Skill and so able to reverse it ? Still pondering...
I think it's said that Galen is actually quite weak in the Skill? (but no doubt much better educated on it than Fitz, at least at first)
I think it's possible Dutiful is stronger in the Skill than Fitz, or at least has learned it 'properly' without the setbacks Fitz had to deal with along the way (yes main one being Galen's Skill command! But also head injury/fits/elfbark/no proper teacher)