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RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Farseer - Oct-24-2010
(Oct-23-2010, 12:12 PM (UTC))Rendezvous Wrote: I honestly believe that the black hair/black eyes combination is quite simply the difference in appearance of one race to another. As this happens in a non magical world I don't see any reason for there being an underlying meaning or significance.
I don’t disagree that the combination is a racial difference, just as those from the Mountain Kindgom tend to be blonde, as Mervi mentioned.
(Sep-01-2010, 11:16 AM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: The Mountain folk are more or less all described as blond, aren't they?
This blondeness was a feature of Kettricken’s that Regal found very unattractive (as was her larger, Mountain folk frame), and which also highlighted her foreignness to the Buckkeep court.
I don’t think my agreeing with that point on race contradicts with the theory that this darker combination of the Farseers etc also has a link with the Skill?
Couldn’t we possibly say that, even in our world, a certain race or even species sometimes seems to develop increased or higher-standard skills or abilities (or prove to be susceptible to certain diseases, elements etc) in comparison to the rest, or may even develop traits that are unique to its kind? It seems that many humans are open to some sort of strain of the Skill (as an aside, humans ALL have the Wit in some form)…but it is simply that in this group or race of people, this strain runs naturally stronger than in most others? It is an inherited ability, just as their dark features are inherited?
While it could be argued that it is a different topic, a White Prophet not only exhibits certain distinctive physical features but also has unique abilities such as the skill of insight and telling of future events. One does not seem to exist without the other.
(Oct-23-2010, 12:12 PM (UTC))Rendezvous Wrote: I don't see any reason for there being an underlying meaning or significance.
I would not normally attach any significance to such a common combination of physical features or attributes, in either a fantasy or real world environment, except that Fitz himself said that it was significant:
(Oct-18-2010, 02:23 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: producing children with black hair and dark eyes and stocky limbs. And with those attributes went a predilection for the Skill
For anyone who doesn’t see a link between black hair/eyes and a possible Skill-ability, does that mean that you believe Fitz is incorrect in his above statement? This IS possible as he was wrong in his earlier writings regarding Elderlings (as one example), as he thought that dragons were Elderlings re his visions in Kelsingra, descriptions of the King Wisdom tapestry in his bedroom OR could it be that he connected the physical combination to the Skill because that was only in line with what he’d experienced re people with this combination seemed to him to be the only ones to have the ability?
Of course, having these attributes doesn’t guarantee one will have the Skill, just that they will have a predilection for it. At the same time, it is apparent that the Skill can also develop and be cultivated in those who do not have those physical traits eg someone who may come in contact with a dragon or even a liveship can then develop a heightened “sensitivity” or Skill-ability, just as Taker etc first developed it when the “stuff of dragons” entered his family line.
(Oct-23-2010, 12:12 PM (UTC))Rendezvous Wrote: I hate to be a spoil sport
If we all agreed, there’d be no need to think further on a topic we’d otherwise move on from. I know I’ve shifted my perception on many a subject here on thePlenty, sometimes only slightly but other times a full flip, and only after thought-provoking posts from “spoilsports” – love it
!
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Nuytsia - Oct-25-2010
(Oct-23-2010, 10:37 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote:(Oct-20-2010, 03:59 PM (UTC))Nuytsia Wrote: It sounds like Prillop's story means Elderlings and dragons parted ways quite some time before the ultimate 'end'Yes, that line of thought definitely requires some further investigation (though my earlier post/take on things may prove inaccurate!). That the arrival of Icefyre gave them hope makes it seem as though Prilkop and the Elderlings possibly believed that all dragons had perished, or something?
Yes I guess they must have, or else is it possible that the Elderlings didn't necessarily think so (but they HAD been abandoned by the dragons) and then after a looooong time of not seeing dragons Prillkop *assumed* they must all have perished. (by this time all pure blood Elderlings were dead)
I REALLY wonder how old this Prillkop is!!
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Farseer - Oct-25-2010
Fool told Fitz this of Prilkop (say that six times quickly
!): "He lived there alone for many years after all the others died. For generations, perhaps. He did not tally the passing years, but I am convinced he has been here a very long time." That Prilkop has possibly lived for generations makes me also wonder just how long Fool, as a successful White Prophet, has lived/will live
! Interesting also that the oracle of Aslevjal was also said to have lived for 'generations' re the oracle we once speculated may have also been Prilkop in a Fool-style female form here...I am actually taking that theory seriously by the way
!*adding the oracle etc to the list*
FitzChivalry Farseer
Woman with dragon, depicted in Kelsingra map tower (though with a red band, or possibly a crest?, across her brow)
Nettle Farseer
Verity Farseer
Chivalry Farseer
Regal Farseer
Shrewd Farseer
Dutiful Farseer
Elliania Blackwater/Bloodblade (and also most/all of the Narcheska's mothershouse/family line?)
Henja
Kestrel (before she greyed)
'Oracle' from Aslevjal
Ephron Vestrit
Althea Vestrit
Wintrow Vestrit
Etta
also the 'Oracle' from Others Island (an Other using glamour?)
Black Rolf
The Black Man (eventually, after many changes and generations?)
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Nuytsia - Oct-27-2010
I'm going to keep my eyes out for these black ones in my re-reads! Although I'm sure you've covered it...
This is OT but I wonder how many white prophets could be alive at one time?? At first I got the impression there's only one at any one time, but now that is obviously not true. Well there MAY be only one 'active' one (?) but when you take into account ex- ones or 'failed' ones (Prillkop) and 'false' (or was she?? bawhwhwhah) ones (PW) I mean sheesh!
There could be others out there, if they live for HUNDREDS of years then .... ?
There must be a huge difference in the age of Prillkop and the age of the Fool ....
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Farseer - Nov-08-2010
*adding little girl attacked by Forged ones, though it does say she had "black hair and dark eyes" in Chapter Thirteen 'Hunting' of RA *
FitzChivalry Farseer
Woman with dragon, depicted in Kelsingra map tower (though with a red band, or possibly a crest?, across her brow)
Little girl Fitz and Nighteyes 'saved' from Forged ones
Nettle Farseer
Verity Farseer
Chivalry Farseer
Regal Farseer
Shrewd Farseer
Dutiful Farseer
Elliania Blackwater/Bloodblade (and also most/all of the Narcheska's mothershouse/family line?)
Henja
Kestrel (before she greyed)
'Oracle' from Aslevjal
Ephron Vestrit
Althea Vestrit
Wintrow Vestrit
Etta
also the 'Oracle' from Others Island (an Other using glamour?)
Black Rolf
The Black Man (eventually, after many changes and generations?)
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Farseer - Jan-11-2013
Just amending Kestrel/Kettle and, not-so-importantly, adding Fool to the list (below).
FitzChivalry Farseer
Woman with dragon, depicted in Kelsingra map tower (though with a red band, or possibly a crest?, across her brow)
Little girl Fitz and Nighteyes 'saved' from Forged ones
Nettle Farseer
Verity Farseer
Chivalry Farseer
Regal Farseer
Shrewd Farseer
Dutiful Farseer
Elliania Blackwater/Bloodblade (and also most/all of the Narcheska's mothershouse/family line?)
Henja
Kestrel/Kettle
'Oracle' from Aslevjal
Ephron Vestrit
Althea Vestrit
Wintrow Vestrit
Etta
also the 'Oracle' from Others Island (an Other using glamour?)
Black Rolf
The Black Man (eventually, after many changes and generations?) and even Fool (as he was at the end of AQ?)
Despite my gazillion re-reads, I never picked up on the fact that Kettle still had black hair with only a small amount of white (I'd always just pictured her with only white!). This is described when Fitz first meets her when driving her cart in AQ.
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - ɴᴏʀтᴜɴᴇ - Jan-20-2013
As it concerns eyes, I suppose black to mean that deep shade of brown so very dark as to appear black in all but the noon light. And I instinctively take "dark" to mean the same thing.
Unless you're hung up on allusions to "black eyes" specifically, the combination isn't so much a Farseer characteristic as it is one of Buck. There are bland references to the dark Buck coloring littered through out the books but Blue Boots is even more specific
Robin Hobb Wrote:"Both Lord Just and the minstrel had the same dark eyes and curly black hair, but that was true of three-fourths of Buck."
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - 'thul - Jan-20-2013
Hmm... A newboy... Is it edible?
RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - Farseer - Jan-28-2013
(Jan-20-2013, 01:27 PM (UTC))ɴᴏʀтᴜɴᴇ Wrote: As it concerns eyes, I suppose black to mean that deep shade of brown so very dark as to appear black in all but the noon light. And I instinctively take "dark" to mean the same thing.
I'd agree.
Though I certainly picture Fitz with 'black' eyes, and he is said to have either 'black' or 'dark' eyes throughout, it is interesting to note that Amber refers to Paragon's newly carved/opened eyes as supposed to having been 'dark brown, almost black' when Clef informed Althea that Paragon had blue eyes like Kennit's mother (and Kennit, but Clef did not know that). 
(Jan-20-2013, 01:27 PM (UTC))ɴᴏʀтᴜɴᴇ Wrote: Unless you're hung up on allusions to "black eyes" specifically, the combination isn't so much a Farseer characteristic as it is one of Buck. There are bland references to the dark Buck coloring littered through out the books but Blue Boots is even more specific
Robin Hobb Wrote:"Both Lord Just and the minstrel had the same dark eyes and curly black hair, but that was true of three-fourths of Buck."
True, Nortune, but it is a characteristic of Buck for a reason (or so I believe
). Buck is the home of the 'first Farseer'...and by this I mean Taker, though it is Fitz who truly becomes the first Farseer by virtue of the fact that the House Farseer is so named after him. And also for reasons as per previous posts that I believe are in this thread eg Outislander/Elderling ancestors etc. I will come back to this though. RE: Black Hair, Black Eyes *Spoilers all RotE Books* - 'thul - Jan-28-2013
One minor thing... House Farseer isn't named after FitzChivalry. It is named for him. Being named after would imply that he is the ancestor rather than the descendant.