+- thePlenty.net Forums (https://theplenty.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Robin Hobb and Megan Lindholm (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Realm of the Elderlings (https://theplenty.net/forums/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) (/thread-22.html)
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - o0Ampy0o - Sep-06-2012
The Fool could not be this "sequential hermaphrodite" because Robin Hobb never introduced the concept. This author lays the foundation for every object, concept, character and storyline in the reality of her books. Certainly nothing of great significance would be contradicted by other facts in this reality. Hobb never brought out this idea. If anything, Hobb described a history of male/female pairings between White Prophets and their catalysts. Yet I think Fitz and the Fool were the exception, both being male, to illuminate the bond of friendship on a spiritual level beyond sexuality even while the love and attraction one felt toward the other had no boundaries or restrictions save those of the other person's. The "sequential hermaphrodite" idea is only a product of reader conjecture.
Hobbs toys with gender roles in her books. The weapons master was female. Many of the best soldiers were female. In the Farseer world women often hold strong positions and it is accepted and never questioned. These women not only hold the position but they fulfill the role without any shortcomings. Hobbs will describe the traits of a new character and only much later in the page does she mention "she" or "her" instead of the "he" or "him" we expect. Hobbs has a strong point of view on women's roles and identification in our world. She wants her readers to suspend preconceived notions about people and look at this from a different perspective. I think many readers were interested in pursuing the sexual relationship instead of following where Hobb was going. The disappointment expressed in not exposing the Fool's gender or sexual orientation exposes what people prefer to dwell upon.
The single strongest trait of the Fool's link to the protagonist FitzChivary Farseer was friendship. As soon as you make the Fool a woman or homosexual or hermaphrodite it becomes a sexual relationship. Even as a counter-sexual being a hermaphrodite is sexual. The sexuality of one character overshadows the relationship. This wasn't a simple friendship. Fitz and the Fool were closer to one another than any other. More than once in the story Fitz and Nighteyes were as one. More than once in the story Fitz and the Fool were as one. None of the characters in the series thought of Nighteyes sexually, (I am speaking of the relationship as a character and a being in a story......the role occupied). The relationship was that of deep friendship and kinship. This was a shared feeling described towards Fitz and the Fool by Nighteyes.
The Fool was not human as described by Fitz more than once when inside his body with the skill and by the Fool himself when he needed to give Fitz back his emotional memories he had retrieved from Girl-on-a-Dragon. Fitz also mentioned how beautiful and unique a being the Fool was. He never identified anything about the Fool as being female when he was within him and able to see from the Fool's point of view. The Pale Woman never mentioned the Fool's sexuality. She would have used that to manipulate Fitz or torture the Fool. If Nighteyes never mentioned the gender of the Fool it meant it was nothing to notice. He would have brought out its effect on "The Pack" at some point had the Fool been female. Instead Nighteyes spoke of the Fool as a 3rd piece of a whole which consisted of Nighteyes, Fitz and the Fool.
The Fool was never sexually expressive. At the most, the Fool would flirt with anything and anyone regardless of gender or sexual orientation. He loved period. He deeply loved and was in love with Fitz without being sexual. You can fall in love with anyone. You can fall in love with a pet or an activity. Being in-love is being intoxicated with your love of something. Because the Fool was an old soul with a sense of his significance in the fate of the world he had the ability to see the bigger picture and keep things in perspective. The Fool never let his love go too far. He knew the boundaries and stated he would never have considered Fitz doing anything Fitz was not capable of. Certainly Fitz never showed any sign of being open to a homosexual relationship. Fitz would never have adjusted to the idea of being sexually attracted to his dearest friend after learning he was actually a she. This is implausible. No one could do that. Anyone who could would have to toss out the friendship and only think of the sexual attraction is there was any. It would become perverse. This relationship was all about love and friendship beyond sexuality.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Farseer - Sep-06-2012
(Sep-06-2012, 07:22 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Nighteyes spoke of the Fool as a 3rd piece of a whole which consisted of Nighteyes, Fitz and the Fool.
Yes, and this is highlighted when all were joined in the quarry prior to Fitz aiding Kettle/Kestral.
Well, O0Ampy0O, prior to logging in I thought I was going to have to ban you as yet another spammer and I come in here and find one of the best posts I've ever read...anywhere!
Even if I *were* to discover that you are a spammer, with a post like that, who cares?
Well met and welcome to thePlenty! 
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - o0Ampy0o - Sep-06-2012
Why would you think I was a spammer? You don't have to answer that. All that matters is that you realize I am not.
Thanks for the welcome.
It is nice that you appreciate my post.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Farseer - Sep-06-2012
Oh, just your name which I briefly glimpsed on the screen during a quick check-in...though I should have known that it was too clever and structured a name for a spammer! ;D
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - 'thul - Sep-06-2012
spambots often use names that make little sense...
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - fool-ish - Sep-06-2012
An excellent, eloquent and absolutely spot-on post!
Hello and welcome, Ampy 
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - finella - Sep-06-2012
(Sep-06-2012, 07:22 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Yet I think Fitz and the Fool were the exception, both being male, to illuminate the bond of friendship on a spiritual level beyond sexuality even while the love and attraction one felt toward the other had no boundaries or restrictions save those of the other person's. The "sequential hermaphrodite" idea is only a product of reader conjecture.
Fitz and the Fool were closer to one another than any other. More than once in the story Fitz and Nighteyes were as one. More than once in the story Fitz and the Fool were as one. None of the characters in the series thought of Nighteyes sexually, (I am speaking of the relationship as a character and a being in a story......the role occupied). The relationship was that of deep friendship and kinship. This was a shared feeling described towards Fitz and the Fool by Nighteyes.
He deeply loved and was in love with Fitz without being sexual. The Fool never let his love go too far. He knew the boundaries and stated he would never have considered Fitz doing anything Fitz was not capable of.
This relationship was all about love and friendship beyond sexuality.
Wow!!! This is fantastic
!!! Thank you so much for your thoughts.It always makes me almost angry, when people spent hours to try to sort out what gender the Fool is. I think, there is noch question less important. When I read these discussions, it is my belief, that it, hm, belittles or reduces him and his feelings for Fitz.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - 'thul - Sep-06-2012
The answer to the question about what his/her/its gender is is on the order of "yes."
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - KekPafrany - Sep-06-2012
(Sep-06-2012, 08:44 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Well, O0Ampy0O, prior to logging in I thought I was going to have to ban you as yet another spammer and I come in here and find one of the best posts I've ever read...anywhere!
I have to agree, one of the best comments.
(Sep-06-2012, 07:22 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: The relationship was that of deep friendship and kinship.
Welcome Ampy,
I'm jelaous of your ability to express yourself.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - londonlassie - Sep-06-2012
Welcome to the forum Ampy!
Wow. You're very eloquent, I have to say. That's probably one of the most well-thought-out and best constructed arguments I've ever read on any subject.