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+--- Thread: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) (/thread-22.html)
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - mmmmmmm - Mar-16-2013
Somewhere on here there is a link in which Robin says something like that at the time her intention was to write about Fitz again at the end of Tawny Man but the amount of negative feedback made her feel she couldn't do it.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Valarya - Mar-16-2013
(Mar-16-2013, 08:58 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: it wouldn't be avoiding the children, for they wouldn't be children.
Nor for that matter, could [insert most RWC characters names'] be considered the same.
What the 'thul beings said. It wouldn't be avoiding the children.. but Tawny Man was still mostly about Fitz' journey, imo.
(Mar-16-2013, 11:08 AM (UTC))mmmmmmm Wrote: Somewhere on here there is a link in which Robin says something like that at the time her intention was to write about Fitz again at the end of Tawny Man but the amount of negative feedback made her feel she couldn't do it.
Ahhh, yes. Thank you! I had forgotten that.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - o0Ampy0o - Mar-16-2013
(Mar-16-2013, 08:58 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: it wouldn't be avoiding the children, for they wouldn't be children.
Nor for that matter, could [insert most RWC characters names'] be considered the same.
(Mar-16-2013, 04:29 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote:(Mar-16-2013, 08:58 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: it wouldn't be avoiding the children, for they wouldn't be children.
Nor for that matter, could [insert most RWC characters names'] be considered the same.
What the 'thul beings said. It wouldn't be avoiding the children.. but Tawny Man was still mostly about Fitz' journey, imo.
Oh come on!
Of course they would be older but the characters are the same whether they are young or old......this does not refer to their personalities that would most likely be influenced by age and experience over time. Fitz has always been Fitz whether he was of "New Boy" age or going off to live with Molly in Withywoods, for instance. With so many children in Fitz's life how could there be a future with Fitz without the children? They would all be grown up, married and living elsewhere? Perhaps, I concede.
(Mar-16-2013, 04:29 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: ....but Tawny Man was still mostly about Fitz' journey, imo.
I was speaking of the TM series plot. Tawny Man was mostly driven by Dutiful's Wit and arranged marriage. The books that included Fitz were addressed from his point of view but the story arc of each series centered around different plots, although they shared the overall story arc curve of the 9-book series. Everything from start to finish placed the characters where they were at any given time because of this underlying motive. Even in the very beginning before Fitz learned of Dutiful's problems a foundation was being laid down paving the way to pull Fitz back in action to assist with Dutiful. Fitz developed a relationship with Dutiful and Nettle in the process of assisting Dutiful, both, in his rescue from Piebalds and his quest to gain his bride to be's hand in marriage after attaining the head of the dragon. They would not have been on the island facing the Pale Woman without the challenge stemming from Dutiful's bride to be, and so on.
(Mar-16-2013, 11:08 AM (UTC))mmmmmmm Wrote: Somewhere on here there is a link in which Robin says something like that at the time her intention was to write about Fitz again at the end of Tawny Man but the amount of negative feedback made her feel she couldn't do it.
Again, whether true or not this does not indicate Hobb already had a story to prepare for. This is just a general feeling that she would probably write something with Fitz eventually and not that she intentionally set up the ending of Tawny Man to line up with specific ideas for a future book. If anything, Hobb clearly made an effort to provide closure at the end of TM in the event that she did not get around to some future tale with the characters.
Let's see this quote, please?
I looked in the Wiki and if it exists I did not see a place for Robin's quotes........it would be a great resource to have available for discussions.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Farseer - Mar-16-2013
(Mar-15-2013, 08:45 PM (UTC))mmmmmmm Wrote: To me, the biggest mystery about the Fool is what on earth does he see in the bad tempered, stubborn, emotionally repressed, homophobic bastard* (aside from his pretty face)
*I do like Fitz really
Same thing I see in him, no doubt, haha. 
More to respond to soon...
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Mervi - Mar-17-2013
Jumping into the middle of this without having read the whole thing so apologies if I've missed something.
That quote about Robin feeling discouraged to write more about Fitz because of negative feedback is a very real one and it's right here. I'm not going to quote from it, because it's long and needs all the context. (Last time I saw it quoted they'd cut it just before the "oh and before someone happily quotes that" line.
)HOWEVER, and that being said, there actually is a Fitz & the Fool story being written (notice that quote is from 2008, things change). Someone at amazon posted a title saying something like "Fitz and Fool 1 Hb" and after a lot of confusion among the fans, Robin very reluctantly admitted that she is indeed working on a new story featuring them. This was late last year at the newsgroup and although the original message is long gone, you can still find quotes from it by googling.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - o0Ampy0o - Mar-18-2013
(Mar-17-2013, 09:25 PM (UTC))Mervi Wrote: there actually is a Fitz & the Fool story being written (notice that quote is from 2008, things change). Someone at amazon posted a title saying something like "Fitz and Fool 1 Hb" and after a lot of confusion among the fans, Robin very reluctantly admitted that she is indeed working on a new story featuring them. This was late last year at the newsgroup and although the original message is long gone, you can still find quotes from it by googling.
Yeah, I have read at least some of both. Not having the ability to see either in their original context I do not know whether I have read all of those two comments. I wondered whether the quote mmmmmmm referred to might be something different though I suspected it was the same. If mmmmmmm posted it we could see.
As far as I can tell Hobb did not have the future book details ready to deliberately bridge the ending of TM to the next book when she completed TM. She wrote an ending for TM. She had some additional ideas about the characters but she did not know how or whether she would follow through on them. She does clearly state that some of these ideas cannot come about because speculation from readers has ruined the conditions to present them properly. She still has a response in the FAQ of her website stating she is finished with the characters.
She publicly acknowledged writing the next Fitz book in the newsgroup before her Sword & Laser interview was aired in November 2012 where she continued to avoid acknowledging it.
Interesting, she says that in the original outline of Assassin's Apprentice The Fool had one appearance with one sentence, nothing more.
She seems very level-headed.
![[Image: Sword-n-Laser-Hobb_zpsd9eb679e.jpg]](https://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag38/o0Ampy0o/Sword-n-Laser-Hobb_zpsd9eb679e.jpg)
This is the more recent admission text for reference:
" With great reluctance, I am addressing this thread, as it simply won’t go away, I suppose.
The accidental listing on Amazon.co.uk is extremely premature. I’d say very extremely except that’s a misuse of adverbs. I’m not blaming anyone for being curious about what the listing means! I just wish it hadn’t happened at all.
Clearly, for some time, my publishers have wanted me to write a continuation of the Fitz and Fool story. It was my hope to work on such a story slowly, carefully and very privately. For years. Because if I do it badly or hastily, I will have ended my career.
[...]
But it’s out there now and there’s no dodging it.
I’m going to avoid posting about this. I’m not going to reply to any queries about it. Not because I’m trying to be a diva or an artiste, but because I need to focus on writing, not talking about writing. I think I’ve posted here before about what I see as the difference between Being a Writer and Writing. I’m not going to Be a Writer about this. There will be no hints, page counts, updates, teasers, or warnings that A Main Character Will Die! I know that many other writers use things like that to build excitement and increase internet chatter. But I don’t. For me, writing is like working on a long complicated math equation. If someone in the room is reciting phone numbers or saying the times table out loud, everything gets scrambled. So I’m going to insulate myself. "
Source: Blog
A Dribble of Ink: Robin Hobb working on new ‘Fitz & Fool’ novel
By Aidan Moher on September 11th, 2012
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Valarya - Mar-18-2013
(Mar-16-2013, 07:18 PM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote:(Mar-16-2013, 04:29 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: ....but Tawny Man was still mostly about Fitz' journey, imo.
I was speaking of the TM series plot. Tawny Man was mostly driven by Dutiful's Wit and arranged marriage.
You might as well say that the Farseer trilogy was about Verity and Kettricken and Chade. While some people would say it was, they were just passing characters, as are Dutiful and Nettle. Are they important? Extremely. But when I think of the RotE story as a whole... I think of the overall plot. The beating heart of the story and why it was written, and that's the fact a scrawny White Prophet came forth to change the course of the future with his Catalyst. Everything that happens in the first 9 books is directly related to that.
As much as I love the details... I try to never lose sight of that simple fact.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - o0Ampy0o - Mar-18-2013
(Mar-18-2013, 04:00 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote:(Mar-16-2013, 07:18 PM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote:(Mar-16-2013, 04:29 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: ....but Tawny Man was still mostly about Fitz' journey, imo.
I was speaking of the TM series plot. Tawny Man was mostly driven by Dutiful's Wit and arranged marriage.
You might as well say that the Farseer trilogy was about Verity and Kettricken and Chade. While some people would say it was, they were just passing characters, as are Dutiful and Nettle. Are they important? Extremely. But when I think of the RotE story as a whole... I think of the overall plot. The beating heart of the story and why it was written, and that's the fact a scrawny White Prophet came forth to change the course of the future with his Catalyst. Everything that happens in the first 9 books is directly related to that.
As much as I love the details... I try to never lose sight of that simple fact.
Well, you might not have ever had sight on certain simple facts to lose.
The entire Farseer and Tawny Man trilogies were about Fitz. Obviously they were told from his point of view. Hobb described how each book has a story plot and conclusion as does each trilogy. Tawny Man's plot was driven by Dutiful's Wit and his arranged marriage. EVERYTHING moved to that beat while revolving around Fitz's point of view. The timeline and supporting history and events of Liveships served to fill in gaps of information coincidentally as much as intentionally as described by Hobb. Fitz wasn't in Liveships and that trilogy was written with a different approach seeing experiences from several character's perspectives instead of one main character. Yet the three were part of one large story arc looking at them from one level, an elevated level that allows one to see all of each trilogy in their entirety.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - Valarya - Mar-19-2013
(Mar-18-2013, 10:45 PM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: The entire Farseer and Tawny Man trilogies were about Fitz. Obviously they were told from his point of view. Hobb described how each book has a story plot and conclusion as does each trilogy. Tawny Man's plot was driven by Dutiful's Wit and his arranged marriage. EVERYTHING moved to that beat while revolving around Fitz's point of view. The timeline and supporting history and events of Liveships served to fill in gaps of information coincidentally as much as intentionally as described by Hobb. Fitz wasn't in Liveships and that trilogy was written with a different approach seeing experiences from several character's perspectives instead of one main character. Yet the three were part of one large story arc looking at them from one level, an elevated level that allows one to see all of each trilogy in their entirety.
I never disagreed.. but I still say that the entire series is, ultimately, about the White Prophet and his course/journey to changing the fate of the world. Even in Liveship Traders (especially in LST).
RE: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) - o0Ampy0o - Mar-19-2013
(Mar-19-2013, 05:54 AM (UTC))Valarya Wrote:(Mar-18-2013, 04:00 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote:(Mar-16-2013, 07:18 PM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote:(Mar-16-2013, 04:29 PM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: ....but Tawny Man was still mostly about Fitz' journey, imo.
I was speaking of the TM series plot. Tawny Man was mostly driven by Dutiful's Wit and arranged marriage.
You might as well say that the Farseer trilogy was about Verity and Kettricken and Chade. While some people would say it was, they were just passing characters, as are Dutiful and Nettle. Are they important? Extremely....
I never disagreed.. but I still say that the entire series is, ultimately, about the White Prophet and his course/journey to changing the fate of the world. Even in Liveship Traders (especially in LST).
If you were not disagreeing you were not agreeing either.
You appear to be confusing plot with characters. I have not suggested Tawny Man is about Dutiful and not about Fitz. I said the plot was driven by Dutiful's Wit and arranged marriage. Dutiful is the impetus.
The impetus of the Tawny Man trilogy being Dutiful includes getting Fitz out of seclusion/retirement and back in action, Fitz's relationship to Dutiful in terms of father/son, Skill Master/student, King-in-waiting/advisor-mentor-protector, development of the future king's Skill and Wit coteries tying in Nettle and Burrich's son, leading to Burrich opening the door back to Molly, the Fool following Fitz to the island, etc..
It begins with Dutiful being kidnapped/coerced/duped by the Piebalds and Fitz chasing him down to bring him home on time for his engagement. Once home, his fiance Elliania sets up a condition that forces Dutiful to travel to a distant island to chop off the head of a dragon and deliver it to his bride's Motherhouse. With the exception of the final chapter that ties up the 9 books in a happily ever after ending, the rest of the trilogy is about preparation for, traveling to and facing the challenge. Everyone in the dramatic finale is there because of Dutiful's challenge.
All along the way Fitz is going through experiences as usual. The larger plot of the 9 book series is playing out on a different level at the same time. As for the greater calling of the White Prophet and the Catalyst, they end up where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there. How they get there is centered around Dutiful. As is typically the case, they do not know how it is to play out at the time. The White Prophet persists in following his Catalyst to his fate.
Okay?