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+--- Thread: The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST) (/thread-22.html)
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Mervi - Aug-14-2010
(Aug-12-2010, 03:43 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: I read an interview of Robin's the other day where she spoke about her thoughts regarding author genders (if female authors are overlooked etc), and her thoughts seem to very much reflect those of Fool...in that it matters not at all!
Can you remember where you read that interview, I'd love to see it as well?
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Farseer - Aug-14-2010
I'm searching for it but haven't been able to find it again, sorry mervi! Of course, I deleted my history this morning and I didn't put the site in with my 'Favourites' either
!! *continues searching*
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Farseer - Aug-21-2010
This could belong in so many threads but...
Some extra thoughts re: my comments about two or three identities in the one body:
I think it is simply the not knowing that raises issues with the Fool/Fitz saga. We want to know and it makes us crazy that we don't!
Although Althea dresses as a male in the LST, and is accused of being 'that way' by Malta etc, there is never any real question as to her sexual preference or gender. Of course, this is especially because we readers are privvy to what takes place between her and Brashen, and her entire family history is also known to us. Still, when she is in her role as Althea, she is Althea and acts accordingly...when she is in her role of Athel, she is Athel...although she cannot entirely give away her 'Althea' mannerisms that are part of her base 'self', eg the way she runs the rigging, or otherwise Brashen may never have discovered her true identity.
Chade, too, dresses as someone of the opposite sex when he takes on the role of Lady Thyme and, although Regal and even Fool allude to a sexual relationship between Fitz and Lady Thyme, we have never questioned Chade's preferences or even his real identity as a male(despite not having this truly confirmed, aside from his brotherly link with Shrewd, when he has numerous relationships with women later on in the Tawny Man series, once he is back out in the public eye). Still, when Robin writes of Lady Thyme, she write of her as 'she' not the 'he' we know her to be
.In this, it is funny that we (including ME!) get in such a tangle about Fool and must question and need to know his real identity rather than just accept each role as a character he must play. He himself admitted to Fitz that his role as 'Fool' was simply a role and just a facet of his whole. When he is Amber, Robin writes of her as a 'she' as that is what she is at that time, and as Fool, Lord Golden etc, it is as a 'he'.
Aside from the gender question, not even Fool can give away certain elements of his essential 'self' eg in each of his roles he has, among other things, displayed a physical 'strangeness', a fluidity in movement, reserves of strength and an affinity to wood - Fool - puppets, carving; Amber - ships, carpenter, beads etc; Lord Golden - hedge witch beads etc. Even when in role he has played sub-roles such as the guise of a slave whilst in his role as Amber.
It seems to me that Fool will do whatever needs to be done or be whoever he needs to be, to fulfill yet another role...that of his being a White Prophet. Fitz, if he were only to admit it to himself, is no different so shouldn't feel duped by Fool in any way...he, too, has taken on numerous roles to fulfill his greater role of Changer. All are deceptive roles and so could therefore be seen as lies or untruths BUT they must be undertaken for the greater good of the world. Not even Fool understands fully what Fitz can do in his role as Changer and this is evidenced by what took place in the plaza. It can also be said that while Fool hasn't seen fit to share himself completely with Robin Hobb
, he was willing to share it all with Fitz (via their Skill link, particualrly when up in Verity's tower room and in company with the rest of the coterie) but it was Fitz who proved unwilling to fnd out.It seems to me that Fool is less mysterious when one looks at the entirety of Robin's RotE work where a major theme is where things are not always what they appear. Many characters prove to be far more complex than they seem, and all have the ability to change the world. Fool said it of himself and Fitz when he said, "We are not only when we must be but we are who we must be." Ah, but my extension of that is for my yet-to-be-added-to Rooster Crown thread
!
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Nuytsia - Sep-12-2010
(Aug-09-2010, 01:50 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: ..what is the significance of the baby etc in Fool's room at Buckkeep (mentioned in AA when Fitz went in there, against Fool's wishes)?
"A baby. I...knelt beside the basket that cradled it. But it was not a living child, but a doll, crafted with such incredible art that almost I expected to see the small chest move with breath. I reached a hand to the pale, delicate face, but dared not touch it. The curve of the brow, the closed eyelids, the faint rose that suffused the tiny cheeks, even the small hand that rested on top of the coverlets were more perfect than I supposed a made thing could be. Of what delicate clay it had been crafted, I could not guess, nor what hand had inked the tiny eyelashes that curled on the infant’s cheek.
I still haven't worked it out from my countless re-reads of all books and it makes me crazy not being able to find a Fool/Amber/Lord Golden/White Prophet link or a clue as to why it would be there!! The only reference to it after the event, that I can find, was when Fool finally answered this question from Fitz in RA, "Whence comes the Fool and why?"
Fool talked about how much he had been loved as a child and Fitz "...remembered the time I ventured into his room, and the exquisite little doll in its cradle that I found there. Cherished as the Fool had once been cherished."
It intrigues me because it sounds like an Elderling-wrought form of artwork. Before he saw the baby, Fitz even said, "I tried to imagine the pale cynical Fool in the midst of all this colour and art."
Not to mention the loom with all of its bright-hued threads in the corner (a reference to or even a physical manifestation of the tapestry threads of Fate he wields as the White Prophet and speaks of at times to Fitz?!), I wonder if the baby simply denotes the future Farseer heir, or could it be something more personal to Fool?
Having just re-read Assassin's Apprentice I am also wondering about this whole thing! To add one more thing to it, when Fitz sees the Fool next and blurts out his guilty apology and excuses (heheh that was funny), the Fool gives him some 'advice for the trip; (to the mountains):
"When considering a man's motives, remember you must not measure his wheat with your bushel. He may not be using the same standard at all."
On the face of it this is more advice (based on his visions) to keep Fitz alive in the mountains .... although it's not particularly helpful! (I guess the motives he refers to are probably Regal's in the matter of the poisoning of Rurisk). But I was also wondering if it was some oblique reference to the Fool's reasons for having his room as he does. Now what it could be referring to in that case I also don't know!
(Aug-09-2010, 01:50 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Also, what do you make of Fool's ability to just 'appear' and 'disappear' as he often did/does, particularly so in the Farseer trilogy when he would suddenly be in Fitz's room or left abruptly without Fitz knowing, seemingly without having opened the door? I know that Fitz couldn't sense him via the Wit but often it was written as though Fool had come and gone in an almost ghost-like fashion?
I know! This WAS happening a lot in AA. As if we are to make something of it! But I also am not sure what! I think the first time it is described is the 'fat suffices' bit, when he appears and then disappears on a hillside near the keep (I think?) At first I thought geees is this near the Skill pillar???? But I doubt there's another inside the Keep! More likely just a secret passage from the Keep out onto the hillside....
But as to his general ability to open and close the door to a room silently and without being seen I have no idea!!!!! I guess just very stealthy. As to his not being detectable to the Wit and having no smell.... that started to really creep me out reading AA and the bit where Fitz realises the Forged ones are undetectable to his Wit sense.
I have already forgotten whether it is explicitly stated in AA that the Fool is undetectable to Fitz's Wit sense, but it DOES say that the puppy Smithy realised the Fool had no smell and that's when Fitz first realised that too. What DOES it mean!!! (apart from my initial suspicion that the 6 duchies people just don't wash very often in comparison....)
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Mervi - Sep-12-2010
(Sep-12-2010, 12:32 PM (UTC))Nuytsia Wrote: "When considering a man's motives, remember you must not measure his wheat with your bushel. He may not be using the same standard at all."
Like "blood will tell", this seems to be one of Robin's favourite sayings.
Fitz repeats it in RA ("But as the Fool had once warned me, there was no point to trying to measure Regal's wheat with my bushels." in chapt 26) and then it's again used in Forest Mage (!!) "Don’t measure my wheat with your bushel." (chapt 25, Nevare mentions it as something his father used to say). Robin also mentioned it once at her newsgroup as something her mother (I think) used a lot. (I wish there was an easy way to access and search the archives of that newsgroup, they would be a treasure trove of references!)
And yes, I've been keeping an eye on this.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Nuytsia - Sep-17-2010
Thanks Mervi!
Hmmm interesting .... and it sounds like the quote from AA is probably really just meant to relate to Fitz's coming troubles with Regal (having that quote you gave from RA).
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Farseer - Oct-26-2010
I can't STAND it anymore! What's with Fool and apricots? He drinks apricot brandy and then asks for apricots in FF (when Fitz brought him back plums to Aslevjal instead)?!
Are they just something he likes or is there some significance to them? There HAS to be some significance doesn't there, particularly as Fool hadn't had a hunkering for them while at Buckkeep the first time around? As far as I have been able to find, nothing of apricots is mentioned in the Farseer books, let alone connected to Fool.
Amber and Althea shared apricot brandy in LST, as did Fitz and Fool from their very first reunion meeting in the TM series. Fool later mentioned somewhere (I think?) that he'd had the bottles shipped from Bingtown or thereabouts, using his wealth to purchase them as they were ridiculously expensive?
Fitz also liked the brandy, and he and Fool even shared some from a flask while within the Elderling city.
The colour of apricots seemed to fairly well match Amber and Lord Golden's colouring for a while there....maybe that's something?
Fool also always complained of being cold. Maybe he drank the brandy for its spreading warmth, to counteract that cold feeling? Fitz recalls the brandy as "Apricots and the heady warmth of a summer day flooded me."
Did you know there actually is a 'golden amber' type of apricot
?
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Rendezvous - Oct-27-2010
No clue about different types of Apricots, however i DO know that Apricot Brandy never actually was directly referenced in the LST trilogy, I reread them looking for something, but nothing. The closest it came was Amber and althea sharing brandy, but apricots weren't mentioned.
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Farseer - Oct-27-2010
(Oct-27-2010, 06:43 AM (UTC))Rendezvous Wrote: No clue about different types of Apricots, however i DO know that Apricot Brandy never actually was directly referenced in the LST trilogy, I reread them looking for something, but nothing. The closest it came was Amber and althea sharing brandy, but apricots weren't mentioned.
I don't have the LST with me to reference so, that's great, thanks for correcting that point, Rendezvous.
While Fitz, I think, ate apricot pastry parcels somewhere, there are no other apricot references that I can find outside of the ones already mentioned, and there's zilch in the RWC.
No doubt the Fool's apricot craving will be one of those little riddles meant to remain unsolved!
RE: The Fool (spoilers for Farseer, Liveship Traders & Tawny Man) - Nuytsia - Oct-27-2010
Or maybe he just likes apricots?
I think it's just one of those little touches that make the characters seem so real to us.
I reckon I'd drink that apricot brandy all the time too - it sounds delish! But I did worry that he had a bit of a drinking problem for a while there.....