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+--- Thread: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? (/thread-321.html)
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - Farseer - Jul-12-2011
Oh, my!
I must admit to experiencing some rising apprehension as I’ve read through this thread but thankfully reached the end able to breathe a sigh of relief! 
It's so easy to give, and take, offence with topics such as this but, despite it being somewhat fraught with danger, I gave it the nod as I think it prompts healthy discussion in very much the same vein as ML's short story 'Cut' did. Such discussion then leads to (hopefully) greater tolerance, acceptance and even understanding. Like learning that barbarians from the Six Duchies are not so barbaric, or *Words Like Coins spoiler* , or that dim-witted or scaled peoples need not be slaughtered as infants. Sometimes though, it's enough just to accept that we are different, and so feel differently about different things.
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Spoiler(Jun-27-2011, 06:04 PM (UTC))Albertosaurus Rex Wrote: All in all, I do want to stress that although I have my theories about what drives people to pierce, I am still very interested in hearing those reasons from piercers themselves. If anything, I have learned in recent years to become more tolerant of other lifestyles.
I love this, Albertosaurus Rex, as the latter was a gutsy admission to make.
While she was still at home with us, my mother pierced my ears when I was five years old. I didn’t have a choice in the matter and guess I just thought, then and later, that it was some kind of rite of passage into girlhood, or something…
When I was about thirteen, I decided I was going to copy my more-than-a little-rebellious, seven-years-my-senior, older sister who had long had the outer sides of both of her ears filled with earrings. I thought what she’d done was “ugly”, I thought it was “stupid”...but I nonetheless pierced my ears a second time (with a dirty sewing needle and no ice-cube or piece of apple at the back) because I knew quite well just how much my “estranged” mother hated what my sister had done and I wanted to annoy her as well (I am not at all proud of this reaction of mine by the way!).
It is a long story (aren’t they always?!), so I won’t bore you with the details, but I couldn't think of a better way to spite her, to be brutally forthright. A goody-two-shoes almost to my core, it was also the limit that I was prepared to reach when it came to “being bad” or making a strong statement that I was unhappy!
(Jun-27-2011, 06:04 PM (UTC))Albertosaurus Rex Wrote: I often suspect that piercing might in many cases be a subconscious manifestation of inner pain.
In this instance, I guess it could be said that I was indeed experiencing inner pain that then manifested itself as piercings, but only to a limit that was acceptable to me. Hmm, I've never really thought about it like that! There were serious reasons why I wanted to act out at that time...reasons that I never disclosed to my mother and which even, fairly recently, kept me from her deathbed.
Anyhow
, suffice it to say that I have regretted the decision from the very moment that I stood back to survey my reflection in the mirror with the two, new holes in my ears. I want to kick myself every time I look in the mirror, even now. I did it under the influence of anger, confusion and poor judgment, and it was an undesired, unchangeable modification. To make it worse, my mother reacted not at all to the change and most likely never even noticed! My only daughter is nine, soon to be ten, and many of her friends have their ears pierced, and have had them pierced for many years. My daughter doesn’t. Do I plan to organize this for one day not too far away? No, and I can’t quite explain why…except to say that I feel like the decision should be left up to her, and it’s not something she’s interested in doing just yet.
Her lobes are like blank canvases and, to me, a hole in each would also make them “less perfect” somehow? I just don’t know…
Still, I have long been vocal in our home about my opinions on tattoos and piercings etc and have thus seemingly influenced both of my sons in this regard. Now both young men, they don’t have or want any of either, or anything else, at least for the time being (now that I’ve said that, I’ll hop on Facebook and see something like “I have an eagle tattoo right across my back and a nose ring” on one of my sons’ status updates!).
Possibly our rural lifestyle also has had much to do with it as we really are quite sheltered (aka hillbillies??), though I do know a number of people, even family members who had the same rural upbringing as I had, who have tattoos. One of my brothers even went so far as to tattoo himself on his hands and legs with a sewing needle and pen ink (I even held the bottle of ink for him once), and my youngest sister had to cover a huge tattoo on the top of her arm for her wedding day – it was unlikely to win her any points with her new husband if she were to openly display her old boyfriend’s name on such a significant occasion!
There is no rhyme or reason as to why I think I should not have a say in one thing (pierced ears) and yet have a strong say in another (tattoos etc).
I also chose not to circumcise my sons, despite it going against the grain of my social and family circles. I don’t know why. It was a conscious choice, yes, but I can’t say how I came to make it. At times I wondered if I had done the right thing, especially when others reacted to the news with horror and wilting criticism, but the same could be said of my choices to breastfeed and use cloth nappies, rather than use formula and disposables. There’s nothing like having a child to expose you to criticism, be it from family, friends or strangers in the street!
After telling him about ‘Cut’, I had a discussion about male and female circumcision with one of my sons (almost seventeen) not so long ago and he said that he’d have been quite angry with me if I’d chosen circumcision for him (not to mention that he was horrified to learn that there was such a thing as female circumcision
). Of course, that is easy for him to say now, and he would likely feel differently if he’d grown up having been circumcised all along. Who can say?It is such a hard thing to balance, and it could drive us nuts if we let it. If my eldest son rang me tomorrow and told me that he’d hung himself from meat hooks attached to a ceiling, I’d need smelling salts to revive me (possibly even a defibrillator!)...and yet, my husband and I have just paid thousands and thousands of dollars so he can learn to hurtle through the sky in an aeroplane and a helicopter. I pray that he, six months off from turning nineteen, will make it at least to his thirtieth birthday before he falls out of the sky just so I won’t hold myself responsible for his death! Or do I instead feel good about myself because I dissuaded him from pursuing a military career?!
I’d be groaning if he rang and told me that he’d dyed his hair or pierced his nipple (honestly, a short-lived fascination with hair gel was bad enough!
), despite the fact that for the last two years he’s had to put up with braces, and now a permanent retainer, just so that his teeth can look straight. Truly, you'd be reading the words of a hypocrite.We all experience different things in life and obviously what seems odd or shocking or ugly to one may simply be the norm or beauty to another. All very interesting to chat (ramble) about though!
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - Farseer - Jul-12-2011
Now I'm thinking about all this...
I must say that some of the tattoos I have seen have been amazing examples of artwork, especially sleeves and other such elaborate types. It must take some skill (and confidence!) to be able to apply a tattoo, particularly as I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to modify a mistake if one was made...we're talking about someone's skin after all?
Just looking at your link, redchild (I wasn't quite game enough to go too far down the page!!!), I'd be seething if someone made a spelling mistake on my skin. That, I just could not live with!
Tattoo history is also fascinating, in much the same vein as redchild noting in another thread that perceptions regarding make-up have changed over time.
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - Nuytsia - Jul-18-2011
Farseer, your story confirms my thought that having your ears pierced once on the lobes has long been seen as totally normal, but anything slightly outside that was (until relatively recently) seen as quite bizarre! (at least if your mother's opinion is anything to go by).
It's kind of strange that I didn't even think of my pierced earlobes as the type of 'piercings' being talked about here!
Although I'd avoid tattoos or more piercings myself, I don't have any strong feeling at all about other people having it done. I don't think I'd have an objection to my children having it done, but that's a bit hard to say seeing I don't have any!
On the other hand, I wouldn't consider having it done to my children before they expressed a desire for it. I just wouldn't think it necessary. I think I was about 14 or 15 when I got my ears pierced.
Farseer do you mean that your ear piercings are all still there despite not using them?
I am pretty sure mine have closed over, as I actually stopped wearing earrings not all that many years after having them done! (couldn't be bothered really)
I guess it depends where they are - the ones higher up are probably less prone to close over I would imagine??
Then again, this reminds me of the short story in the Inheritance!! Gah I can't remember which one it was, but I remember the protagonist saying she pierced her ears (with a needle and some soap???) and not only didn't they get infected but they didn't close over despite her not putting earrings in them. Oh yeah it was the silver lady and the fortyish man story???? I remember thinking what a crock!! Mine got infected despite having it done professionally AND closed over years later through not wearing earrings!
Maybe it's just ME !!
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - 'thul - Jul-19-2011
Where piercings are concerned, these beings consistently think of one card from a game they have played many times...
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - Farseer - Oct-05-2011
I thought of this thread when I met one of my nieces for the first time last week. She is eight months old and has her ears pierced with quite large, diamond-like earrings. That's not a judgement, just an observation. As per previous discussion, it's not what I would do for my child, but that's not to say that I am right, or that someone who does things differently to me is wrong. My niece's mother has quite a few earrings and piercings so it will interest me to see if my niece grows up to desire these for herself.
Now on to other body modifications...
My daughter chews her fingernails. I bought some horrible tasting stuff (sourced from cacti) and put in on her nails to discourage the nibbling. It is produced for this purpose and I had tried it with her before to no avail, but that was mostly due to my own lack of vigilance in applying it every day (life would get busy and I'd forget!).
As I was applying it this morning, she was complaining VERY loudly as she knows quite well just how disgusting it tastes...it's truly vile stuff!
Our conversation followed on from there, something along these lines:"Why do I need to have this put on?" she asked.
"To help you stop chewing your nails."
"Why do I have to stop? What does it matter?"
"It's unhealthy and it doesn't look very nice either."
"What if I don't care if it doesn't look nice? What if I like chewing my nails?"
It is so easy for us to impose our own views on our children, without even realising that we are doing it! By this I don't mean the things we teach in order for them to function well, or for them to become good people or law-abiding citizens or whatever. We're parents, that's our task. What right do I truly have though to stop her from chewing her nails if it doesn't really matter? She is in no danger. She isn't doing anything 'wrong'. She isn't causing herself or anybody else any harm. It really is more of an aesthetic or 'socially-acceptable' standard that I am enforcing, particularly as my eldest son also chews his nails and I gave up worrying about it many years ago. He's a male...who cares?...he's not expected to have pretty nails.
So shallow of me, trying to box my daughter into a preconceived mould. All is made worse in that I've often worked hard to ensure that I don't fit anyone else's box for me!
Pierced ears and fingernails may seem like small fry in the whole scheme of things but it is difficult to justify my stance on the 'bigger' issues if I can't justify myself on the lesser ones. My daughter gave me much to think about. Children are wonderful for doing that! The question is, now that she has given me cause to pause, will I continue to harp on about her nails, or will I let her go her own way?
@Nuytsia: Yes, my second set of holes are still open and visible despite not having worn earrings pretty much since I pierced them! Mine also didn't get infected at any stage, though my original set are prone to infection as I am allergic to silver.
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - 'thul - Oct-05-2011
*notices the part about silver allergy*
*mumbles something about farseer and werewolf?*
anyways,these beings generally agree with the statements about pierced ears. Piercing ears should only happen after an age where the child can decide for itself whether to do it, and not by simple adult coercion. Seeing infants/toddlers with pierced ears is simply saddening.
As for chewing nails... It is a common habit among humans, and is not one easy to quit. It might be explained by persons that are a bit twitchy, having to use their hands for something... Having something softish to chew on instead that is not chewed to bits in minutes (or hours) could cause avoidance of chewing nails... Inevitably of course, the chewy object will be forgotten or misplaced, and the nails gone again.
So long as the person sticks to chewing fingernails it is fairly ok. It is bad if they go for toenails as well.
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - Farseer - Oct-05-2011
(Oct-05-2011, 09:59 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: *notices the part about silver allergy*
*mumbles something about farseer and werewolf?*
(Oct-05-2011, 09:59 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: So long as the person sticks to chewing fingernails it is fairly ok. It is bad if they go for toenails as well.
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - joost - Oct-05-2011
I don't consider chewing fingernails to be body modifications. It's, to me, the same category as shaving off your hair (I do both by the way). In a sense it could be considered healthy, since you're removing waste products from your body
.About cutting: There is an artform called scarification. It's a tattoo created by deliberately creating scars on the skin. Definitely not my thing but some amazing things have been created in this field. The most beautiful scarification I've ever seen: http://www.flickr.com/photos/37996580417@N01/2790777327/
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - Farseer - Oct-05-2011
(Oct-05-2011, 10:36 AM (UTC))joost Wrote: I don't consider chewing fingernails to be body modifications.
No, neither do I in the true sense...but I thought it interesting that if I am going to take control of such a small decision on the part of my daughter's body, where do I think my rights to tell my daughter what to do with the rest of her body begins and ends?
(Oct-05-2011, 10:36 AM (UTC))joost Wrote: It's, to me, the same category as shaving off your hair (I do both by the way). In a sense it could be considered healthy, since you're removing waste products from your body
I thought about shaving my head for Shave for a Cure this year (this is an annual fundraiser that supports the Australian Leukaemia Foundation) but chickened out...again. I'm not sure the world is ready for my moon head to be exposed!
Interesting that hair is sometimes kind of thrown into the same category as other body modifications and alterations though, and the perception that someone is being rebellious or anti-social or whatever if their hair is outside what is considered 'normal' or 'acceptable' in any setting. Such thinking is well reflected in many private schools here in Australia where colouring hair, wearing hair shorter than a number four length or longer than the collar (in the case of boys) is considered a major breach of a school rule. Even wearing long hair out (not tied back in a bun or pony-tail) is a 'uniform' breach for girls.
Hmm. I see with this and the fingernails that I have gone wandering aimlessly off-topic and am really going on about what is or isn't deemed socially acceptable...!
(Oct-05-2011, 10:36 AM (UTC))joost Wrote: About cutting: There is an artform called scarification. It's a tattoo created by deliberately creating scars on the skin. Definitely not my thing but some amazing things have been created in this field. The most beautiful scarification I've ever seen: http://www.flickr.com/photos/37996580417@N01/2790777327/
This isn't my thing either (I'm too much of a sook for a start!), but I can also see the beauty in it. It is nicely done. I see from the comments that the female had been in an accident and covered whatever scar she'd received from it with the artwork. Rather clever really! From my understanding, it looks like it was quite freshly done at the time the photo was taken, so I'd imagine that it would appear far less raw or weepy-looking once the skin settled down.
I don't know much about it but it would seem like a 'natural' alternative to a tattoo?
RE: Tattoos, piercings and body modifications: why? - 'thul - Oct-05-2011
Actually, there is one form of chewing fingernails that is quite and entirely wrong.
Chewing fingernails that do not belong to yourself.
What is a "number four length"? (these beings do not feel like googling it)