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+--- Thread: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread (spoilers) (/thread-706.html)
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RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - Valarya - Mar-11-2013
Should Molly just sit around and stay faithful to a dead man? She spent a lot of time mourning.. and Fitz never expects to take Burrich's place. Honestly, I think you're over-thinking that scenario, or for some reason you feel Molly is being unfaithful.
Either way, getting his memories back from Girl-on-a-Dragon was extremely important to the story of Fitz being whole. The Molly thing was just a by product.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - o0Ampy0o - Mar-11-2013
(Mar-11-2013, 01:50 AM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: Should Molly just sit around and stay faithful to a dead man? She spent a lot of time mourning.. and Fitz never expects to take Burrich's place. Honestly, I think you're over-thinking that scenario, or for some reason you feel Molly is being unfaithful.
Either way, getting his memories back from Girl-on-a-Dragon was extremely important to the story of Fitz being whole. The Molly thing was just a by product.
The trouble is that the topic of dealing with Burrich was not mentioned. You said how important having children with someone is yourself. After all of the introspection in the series all we see is Fitz wooing Molly and working on the children one by one as he attempts to see more of Molly. That was even treated in a lightweight manner seemingly to lay down a path to a happy ending.
The manner of Fitz becoming "whole" is a fantasy concept. Few people are whole after dramatic ups and downs in life. We carry wounds and scars. That is part of being adults. Fitz was literally beaten to death. He did not need those missing memories to live on. There are other ways to fill holes in a person where they become stronger human beings. That idea of making Fitz whole is an idea that could have been thrown in to work as a band-aid for other holes in the changed ending.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - Valarya - Mar-11-2013
(Mar-11-2013, 01:57 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: The manner of Fitz becoming "whole" is a fantasy concept.
I believe we are discussing a fantasy book series.
(Mar-11-2013, 01:57 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Fitz was literally beaten to death. He did not need those missing memories to live on.
In Robin's world, he did. He couldn't be completely himself without the whole of himself. There's this concept she writes about in her books, maybe you recall it, called Forging. You know - becoming a shell of a human by having all your memories and emotions thrown in to a chunk of Skill rock. Parts of Fitz were given up to the Skill rock, so he was a semi-Forged human. I believe Robin saw this moment coming from miles away based on the fact she brings up Forging in the very first book, and Fitz semi-Forges himself at the end of the third book.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - o0Ampy0o - Mar-11-2013
(Mar-11-2013, 02:10 AM (UTC))Valarya Wrote:(Mar-11-2013, 01:57 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: The manner of Fitz becoming "whole" is a fantasy concept.
I believe we are discussing a fantasy book series.
Sure we are but making that comment just undermines the strength of the rest of your post. I made that statement to point out that it was made up and not necessary as people live fragmented, scarred and carry active wounds. It is part of what we are.
(Mar-11-2013, 02:10 AM (UTC))Valarya Wrote:(Mar-11-2013, 01:57 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Fitz was literally beaten to death. He did not need those missing memories to live on.
In Robin's world, he did. He couldn't be completely himself without the whole of himself. There's this concept she writes about in her books, maybe you recall it, called Forging. You know - becoming a shell of a human by having all your memories and emotions thrown in to a chunk of Skill rock. Parts of Fitz were given up to the Skill rock, so he was a semi-Forged human. I believe Robin saw this moment coming from miles away based on the fact she brings up Forging in the very first book, and Fitz semi-Forges himself at the end of the third book.
I have to agree with most of this part. I don't think it had to play out this way. I cannot read Hobb's mind of course so I am suggesting theories. No one but her could know what she could have done. If I could I would be wise to take up fantasy writing. It is much easier to see what does not fit than to say what Hobb definitely would have done or was originally going to do. The groundwork was built and lead to a general spot but the details of that area are unknowable. There are a number of things that did not fit in. I agree that the forging concept ties in with Fitz being partially forged. But him becoming a boy inside instead of something more like fulfilling a greater potential as a man is a weakness in the ending.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - Valarya - Mar-11-2013
I agreed with you on the point he should not have ended up with Molly - I was just trying to point out that it did, somewhat, make sense.
Him being less of a person while Forged makes even more sense given how Hobb built her world.RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - o0Ampy0o - Mar-11-2013
(Mar-11-2013, 02:33 AM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: I agreed with you on the point he should not have ended up with Molly - I was just trying to point out that it did, somewhat, make sense.Most, if not all, of your points have made sense. I think the ending we were given made sense but it was not at the level that the previous 9 books evinced. In several instances something else would have made more sense.
Our connection with characters comes through weaving together various elements. The Fool living on after his death by the hand of the Pale Woman made sense but the series would have been a better body of work if he had not. I love the Fool as much as anyone but his death was part of his life and fit with the story arc of the series. Him living on weakened the investment I had in that world of characters. I said elsewhere that I mourn when I complete a series I did not mean literally mourning the death of a character but I felt much less after the ending of this series. Had the Fool truly died it would have been something I carried with me for the rest of my life.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - Valarya - Mar-11-2013
(Mar-11-2013, 02:48 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: The Fool living on after his death by the hand of the Pale Woman made sense but the series would have been a better body of work if he had not. I love the Fool as much as anyone but his death was part of his life and fit with the story arc of the series. Him living on weakened the investment I had in that world of characters. I said elsewhere that I mourn when I complete a series I did not mean literally mourning the death of a character but I felt much less after the ending of this series. Had the Fool truly died it would have been something I carried with me for the rest of my life.
I probably would have mourned the ending of the series more if the Fool had remained dead, as well. However, I can't discount the fact that Fitz finding his dead body, carrying him all the way to the Skill road through the pillar, putting on the Rooster Crown and bringing him back to life was one of the most touching moments of my reading experience with that series. I bawl, every time, through that entire part.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - o0Ampy0o - Mar-11-2013
(Mar-11-2013, 04:09 AM (UTC))Valarya Wrote: I probably would have mourned the ending of the series more if the Fool had remained dead, as well. However, I can't discount the fact that Fitz finding his dead body, carrying him all the way to the Skill road through the pillar, putting on the Rooster Crown and bringing him back to life was one of the most touching moments of my reading experience with that series. I bawl, every time, through that entire part.
This event was unsettling to me (aside from obvious possibilities) because the Fool did not appreciate being brought back to life. From the moment Fitz made contact with him through the rooster crown the Fool discouraged him from doing anything to change things. After he had time to recover he did not so much as embrace Fitz with affection or show any sign that he appreciated the opportunity to rejoin Fitz in life.
I realize the Fool had a major dilemma to confront. He never foresaw living beyond a certain point. Among many things the potential impact on the future of the world was on his mind. Yet the love between them should have afforded more affection. In that respect it was an empty venture.
Now as for my theory, Fitz could have learned of the deal the Fool made with Girl-On-A-Dragon by merely placing the rooster crown on his head and hearing the voices of the minstrels and the Fool. The Fool could have guided him through the steps that restored Fitz's memories and feelings. He did not have to do it himself. I suspect the Fool's soul(?) was originally meant to rest within Girl-On-A-Dragon.
RE: Ampy's Farseer, Liveship & Tawny Man Thread - Farseer - Mar-12-2013
I'm here to dump and run so haven't read anything since my last visit but, just had to say, I saw the thread title and grinned.
Good on you, o0Ampy0o!! I'm chomping at the bit to get back here to discuss all things F, LST & TM!
