Impervious Ships (spoilers RWC)

[astagg]

Been cautiously reading this forum over the last few months and decided to join in now that I only have the epilogue from city of dragons to finish on my way home tonight and can't run into spoilers.

Thought I would start a discussion on what you think the new impervious ships are protected by? I am thinking that either someone else found a log like Leftrin did and perhaps grounded it to a paste that they have applied to the hulls.

Or due to the number of mentions of local wildlife being able to survive in the water something similar has been done with their skins...

Seems strange that after all this time of the rain wilders attempting to find other ways of making a usable boat (other than liveships) someone from Jamaillia does it in a couple of years after finding out about the river...

['thul]

It might be based on memory sand, yet it is uncertain if they could acquire it. More likely it is based on some slick, acid-resistant compound. Its an interesting dilemma.

Jamaillia did know of the river well before, but they had no reason to really focus upon it. too much was unknown and they were already taking great profit from it.

[Farseer]

Been cautiously reading this forum over the last few months and decided to join in now that I only have the epilogue from city of dragons to finish on my way home tonight and can't run into spoilers.

Well met and welcome, astagg (the hobb obsessive in me sees 'stag' which is a small step to 'buck'! ). Yes, spoilers aplenty here within thePlenty so l look forward to a time when you can roam freely.

Thought I would start a discussion

Wonderful!

on what you think the new impervious ships are protected by? I am thinking that either someone else found a log like Leftrin did and perhaps grounded it to a paste that they have applied to the hulls.

Or due to the number of mentions of local wildlife being able to survive in the water something similar has been done with their skins...

Yes, to create the paint that the new, impervious hulls are painted with, ground wizardwood could certainly have been used. Possibly even ground memory stone which is much, much more accessible and lawfully obtained as opposed to wizardwood. There are reserves of it (memory stone) in various forms aside from wizardwood (blocks, cubes, gravel, ground) in various locations throughout the realm.

I hadn't given hide a thought but that would be a clever use of hide and something easily sourced/found?

I recall the 'thul beings speaking in another thread about the roots of Rain Wild trees being impervious to the acidic waters of the Rain River also, so the use of those in some fashion could be a possibility for the hull paint as well...but I am more for memory stone or wizardwood or somesuch myself.

I had planned to one day get back to the Others' Island thread with this small point but, seeing as it may contribute to this new discussion in some fashion as welI, I plonk it here for the time being ...

Putting the rest totally under spoiler tags as the thread title only has RWC spoilers quoted and I'm not sure how much else of the RotE series you have read, astagg.

**Farseer, LST & TM spoilers**

Spoiler

...the Elderling-wrought artifacts that end up on the Treasure Beach are all impervious to the ocean and other elements such as weather etc, just as liveships and simulacra dragons etc have proven to be impervious, and just as these newly-painted hulls have proven to be impervious. A memory stone, wizardwood or Skill-wrought connection between them is thus obvious to me?

An added point is that maybe the paint for the hulls is even a concoction of the priests of Sa, though I can't remember what is said of the creator of the paint in RWC (?), created while under the influence of the Skill during training/artwork creation sessions? Those priests have some role to play in the downfall of the realm, I am certain of it!

Seems strange that after all this time of the rain wilders attempting to find other ways of making a usable boat (other than liveships) someone from Jamaillia does it in a couple of years after finding out about the river...

More Farseer, LST and TM spoilers*

Spoiler

This all makes my mind flit like a flea back to the hulls of the Red Ships, as I did once before:

Was there ever a reason given WHY the hulls of the Red-Ships were painted red, other than an obvious one, like, that the PW liked red?

I know the ships all looked exactly the same and this made it difficult for Fitz, Verity etc to determine how they were going with decreasing the size of the fleet: "We could not even put an accurate number to the Red-Ships that plagued us, for they were painted identically, and as like as peas in a pod."

Possibly the Pale Woman was on to something with not only the simulacra dragons (creating her own with Kebal Rawbread to outdo the SD simulacra) but also painting hulls? Maybe she, with her Skill abilities and knowledge from scrolls, somehow stumbled onto the thought that memory stone etc could be used to create paint for impervious hulls and this is what the red hulls were actually for? Maybe she was giving priority to creating the simulacra dragon first and then would use the ships to plunder the Rain Wilds or something (thought this was never suggested at any point...just a pondering on the red hulls on my part as I can't help but think of the red hulls when I consider these new, impervious ones! ). She would not overly need impervious hulls for anything else as she already had a source of memory stone in the Aslevjal quarry...but then may have wanted to reach Kelsingra etc to make sure of its destruction and was not aware of the use of the Skill-pillars to do so? Tsk! I digress, and digress....!

I bring all this up simply to point out the possibility that an impervious hull may not be freshly created/thought about. Also, as those beings known as 'thul have said, Jamaillia did know of the river well before. During the LST series though, it is pointed out often how the Rain Wilders and Bingtowners held their cards (secrets) very close to their chests and how little those outside of their circles knew. More and more as Time trundles on (and I use a capital 'T' here deliberately as a connection to Fitz, Fool and Time) and the gradual move to unity is made, as per the first precept of Sa, the more that others will learn the secrets and full history of the realm...and want to take action.

EDIT: Will have to re-read and come back, I think!

['thul]

Farseer, Astagg has probably read everything except BoD now... He did state he just lacked the epilogue of CoD in his post...

[astagg]

Wow nice long reply farseer, I was wondering how long till someone spotted the stag in my name and related it It is coincidental though as its the name I use for everything (my first 2 initials 'a s' and surname 'tagg'). Also just to clarify I have just got to hunt down the short stories for my kindle to complete my reading of the series so far so have read all the others.

I didn't think of the memory stone itself that's a good point there is plenty of that around for someone to have been experimenting on.

I also started thinking about the others island the other night. I am sure there is more to learn about from there, and could be someone has been there and taken something to help in this.

I did think of the memory sand thul but as you said it would be hard to acquire as I think the only known location of this is the cocooning grounds which would have been hard to get access to.

I am convinced though that there has to be something special going on here rather than a generic advancement in science and acid.

['thul]

It would be more fun if it were more than mere science...

['thul]

in the midst of that re-read of CoD, these beings got the inklings of a theory on these ships...

It was apparently a formula, so its probably some coating.
Apparently it was a pirate isles concoction.
Maybe, in good old style of the convoluted interconnection you love Farseer, it could be that Winthrow is involved somehow? He's more a pirate Islander than a Bingtowner by the time of CoD.

Could it be made from memory sand/stone harvested from an island like other's island? or perhaps the dead stone dragon on that island althea skinned seals alive on? (according to some observers, lightly embellished)

Even if Winthrow isn't behind the formula, he no doubt knows of it.

[Farseer]

Could it be made from memory sand/stone harvested from an island like other's island? or perhaps the dead stone dragon on that island althea skinned seals alive on? (according to some observers, lightly embellished)

Most assuredly from either of these, and more.

Re the name of that latter island is The Barrens. I have to stop myself now otherwise I will have to go on and on and on, and here is not the spot for that going on and on and on...but I do love that dragon, and that arrow, and that place, and how it all does or doesn't, or may or may not, fit into the history of the entire realm....not to mention the events of TM. I have raised it ina few spots previously but will have to let that conversation live again one day...

Convoluted interconnections? Yes, please!

['thul]

Stop yourself?

Who are you and what've you done with Farseer?

Seems the book doesn't agree with itself. Some say pirate isles, others say 'Jamaillia built'

[Farseer]

Stop yourself?

Who are you and what've you done with Farseer?

Seems the book doesn't agree with itself. Some say pirate isles, others say 'Jamaillia built'

A re-read for me is also required here, as the only thing that I think I truly recall is that it was applied as paint to the hulls. Possibly the ships were built in J and the paint/impervious product produced in the PI?

While I agree that it could certainly have been Wintrow, maybe it was someone else with a vested interest/money in the PI region (who has a friend nicely situated there) who wishes to finally open up the Rain Wilds to the entire realm...not to allow for plundering but to allow for the eventual return of balance and to encourage the shifting of Time's Wheel out of its current rut?

I
I
I
V

I've already spoken of the First Precept of Sa in this thread (and will likely speak of it a gazillion times hereafter as it is, I believe, also the First Precept and foundation of the entire RotE series! ) but "Only in Union is there Continuity" and unity cannot occur whilst the Rain Wilds holds on to its secrets and its current way of doing things. Change must happen there, as for all of the realm and for all of those within the realm, for this unity, and therefore continuity of the realm/world/life, to take place.

While opening up the Rain Wilds may seem like a very bad idea, given what must now take place (EDIT: such as plunder), likely it will prompt positive change in the long run...a bit like how personal changes for characters seem like awful life events for them at the time (losing liveships etc) but end up being the best things for both the character and the realm in the long run.