Predictions (MAJOR progressive spoilers on all books)

[Chrischa]

Finished book 1 yesterday morning. I remember again what I didn't like about the books:
- Colonialism in its worst form
- Too much religion
- "Women are barter material"

I agree, but then I always found that these themes are in the book as a critiscism on our own society.

What was it I read the other day...? Art is the means by which humanity studies itself. I think that's certainly true for these books. It's the same vile, narrow-minded attitude that prevailed in Europe in colonial times. There wasn't a worse time for other people to be "discovered" then during those years with that mindset.

[Farseer]

Finished book 1 yesterday morning. I remember again what I didn't like about the books:
- Colonialism in its worst form
- Too much religion
- "Women are barter material"

I agree, but then I always found that these themes are in the book as a critiscism on our own society.

What was it I read the other day...? Art is the means by which humanity studies itself. I think that's certainly true for these books.

Agreed, Chrischa!! Does all this mean you gave up, joost, or are you still going ?!

[joost]

Just started Renegade's magic, so no, I'm not giving up.

Yes, I know that they're meant as criticism of our society. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

[Farseer]

Finished, joost?

I am interested to read an expansion of your comments, particularly 'women are barter material' as this could also be said of the RotE books? *trying to cast mind back to Gernia!*

Although possibly it could be included as an addition to the Gernia vs RotE thread if you are going to compare?

As for European times, it is all really so different now?

[joost]

Finished last week. I think they're good books, but I still don't like the Gernians.

Women barter material in RotE? I can't think of anything that compares to Yaril's or Epiny's treatment (that someone else decides for their future, merely based on the fact they're women). Men are of course treated in the same way (as a second son, you have no choice but to become a soldier's son), but for some reason that doesn't bother me as much. At the end of the books there's a change visible though.

I guess it's just my natural reaction to overzealous people.

[Nuytsia]

I don't know, the Chalcedeans and some of those in Jamailla don't seem to treat women very well!
(I'm thinking of Malta on the ship I think..?)

[Farseer]

I don't know how many times I've meant to come back here to respond but I get lazy with spoiler tags these days. Very slack of me...

I agree, Nuytsia (hello! ). I think that there are a number of instances in the RotE where "someone else decides for their future, merely based on the fact they're women". The one that jumps out at me immediately is ** Liveshp Traders spoiler as this is a Gernia thread **

Spoiler

Althea. She certainly had her future decided for her and even had to create a male identity for herself to make it, particularly safely, in the world of men. She was raised as a substitute son but then had everything she ever wanted stripped from beneath her at the final hour, simply because her mother felt she should finally stay at home and do what women do. What is saddest here is that it was a woman who did this to her , and not a man. Of course, Kyle etc went on to compound and worsen the situation. Ronica knew that once she was captain of the Vivacia, Althea would never adhere to such social restrictions.

---

but I still don't like the Gernians.

Oh, I must strongly agree!

[Nuytsia]

Hello!
I most totally agree.... and

Spoiler

I guess this is a OT but the fact that Althea never got to be captain of Vivacia and in fact Brashen ended up being captain of the Paragon - something I don't think he had a particularly strong ambition for (it kind of fell into his lap) - made me very irritated! I suspect that was fully intentional on the author's part! (although apparently a lot of people didnt feel like that at all and saw Althea as a spoiled brat and a poor sailor who deserved no such thing! So I could be totally wrong on the author's intent)