[split] What does the name "Farseer" really mean? SPOILERS ALL BOOKS

[Mervi]

I'm re-reading RA (oops, how did that happen) and just came across this passage. And when I read it in context, I started to wonder if, when the Fool says "but I have seen you take a name, FitzChivalry Farseer", he means that he has seen Fitz take a name - the name Catalyst, the Changer. Maybe the Fool was somehow privy to Fitz's Man Ceremony, or just refers to the fact that Fitz seems to accept that name for himself.

[Farseer]

We all remember Fool's prophetic words to Fitz in AA, "Fitz fixes feists fits. Fat suffices', and hopefully it took you all as long to get your head around it, as it took me !

Later on in Fool's Fate, Fool referred back to it and asked Fitz how he knew what to do, as his Catalyst, even back then.

Was there a greater meaning to this prophecy or am I right in my thinking that it was just a precursor for the incident that took place in Baykeep when Fitz saved Lady Grace's small dog from choking on the poultry bone?

Fitz, via his Wit, knew of the dog's distress, which one could say had the dog in a fit? As a small dog, the dog itself fits the definition of a 'feist' but even further, Lady Grace endearingly names it directly as 'My little Feisty' at one point. That Fitz then goes on to use nothing more than a hook and the age-old lubricating properties of butter, which could be said to be/contain a form of fat, to get the bone free, it seems to confirm that fat did suffice?

While this may not seem a significant enough event for a prophecy from the White Prophet, surely it can be said that Fitz proved to change much through the saving of the dog and his advice to Lady Grace, which ultimately put an end to tension between Rippon and Shoaks Duchies? While he was certainly lucky to have been given the opportunity to save the dog, Fitz could also receive a fair bit of credit here for his 'seeing far' in this situation and using diplomacy to bring about peace?

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Maybe the Fool was somehow privy to Fitz's Man Ceremony

I love the mystery that surrounds this ceremony and believe that, yes, Fool would had to have been present, wouldn't he?!

[Farseer]

I'm not supposed to be doing anything else (sorry Mervi ) but came across this regarding the Man Ceremony. ' ...I awoke to find my bed surrounded by robed and hooded figures. Within the dark hood I glimpsed the masks of the Pillars.'

What are the Pillars? Are they related to the Mountain Kingdom character runes that are also similar to the glyphs on Skill-pillars?

*continues searching for Queen Constance!*

[Mervi]

I always thought the Pillars ARE the Witness Stones of Buck. But since we know those have (no longer) any markings, I don't know what their masks would look like.

(I think the info on Constance is from RA chapt 29. However, that doesn't mean there isn't something else in somewhere else in the books about her... I'm starting to think we need to start using *some* sort of a references system in the wiki after all...)

[Farseer]

I always thought the Pillars ARE the Witness Stones of Buck.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, Mervi. Do you mean you think the hooded figures are men who represent the Witness Stones OR that the Pillars are literally present at the ceremony in the form/guise of men eg that they exist as beings that also serve as the Witness Stones (and by extension are also the ones who deliver punishment etc to those brought forth to the Witness Stones for judgement?)? If it's the latter, wow, that's something new that bends my thinking in whole different direction - love it! Or have I missed your meaning entirely ?!

But since we know those have (no longer) any markings, I don't know what their masks would look like.

I was thinking that the glyphs within the hoods could be like those mentioned by Kettricken on the Skill Road in AQ and then in more detail when she shared them and also played the Out Islanders game (I think!) in the TM series. I only thought this because the glyphs all seemed to signify characters or elements, and the hooded men could be meant to signify them also. Love the theory of them being actual pillars though!

(I think the info on Constance is from RA chapt 29. However, that doesn't mean there isn't something else in somewhere else in the books about her... I'm starting to think we need to start using *some* sort of a references system in the wiki after all...)

Thanks for the tip as I had found some things but not what I needed with regard to her geographical origins. I admit it would be handy to have references in the wiki, though possibly time-consuming for some contributors (as a down side) on top of the work needed to simply complete entries. I wouldn't mind either way. I think it's only me who tangles details though...I add tiny extras in to comments that are not overly important to my main focus at times, especially when I am working on more than one task at a time or flitting over a number of theories while busy with other tasks eg it is more about having had Hisspit than any sort of Mountain connection with Constance that interests me but I know I was looking up something else about Fitz's mother having come from the Mountains at the time I made the post and so probably just took a huge leap and thought, 'Oh, Constance came from the Mountains too...that would fit with my thoughts that Hisspit was her Wit partner...I'll include that!' The more I have thought about it, the more I believe that's the case, and she did come from within the Six Duchies, not the Mountains. Aside from Hisspit, Constance isn't a character I had thought too much about previously!

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(I think the info on Constance is from RA chapt 29.

'She was very much of the Coastal folk' seems pretty conclusive to me, Mervi! Thanks.

[Mervi]

Nah, I just meant that I've always thought that Fitz meant the "the Witness Stones" when he said "Pillars" and I had just figured this meant black, smooth surfaces as masks. Now that I've stopped to actually think about this (and thank you for that! ) I realize it could mean a LOT of different things - the Pillars could be something else entirely, and the "mask of the Pillars" could indeed be something more interesting than just black fabric. I need to check what the books actually say about the glyphs, but didn't each mark refer to a certain place? Were they the same glyphs that were used in the Stone Game, or just similar?

We might also consider the possibility that this early in the series, Robin hadn't yet formed the principles of this cosmos completely and just wrote the Man Ceremony so that it sounded mysterious - and didn't necessarily even attempt to connect it to anything else.

[Nuytsia]

We all remember Fool's prophetic words to Fitz in AA, "Fitz fixes feists fits. Fat suffices', and hopefully it took you all as long to get your head around it, as it took me !
Later on in Fool's Fate, Fool referred back to it and asked Fitz how he knew what to do, as his Catalyst, even back then.

Yes I think the most straightforward explanation of the 'fat suffices' thing is as you described (relating to the dog). But I always thought surely it must be more than that! Not sure. I would like to re-read it's reference in Fool's Fate, but I can't remember whereabouts it's mentioned in FF.
It always struck me that 'fat suffices' is a rather contrived way of saying 'he got it out with butter' and it further strikes me that 'fat suffices' sort of rhymes with 'sacrifices'.... however what the rest of the 'prophecy' could rhyme with I don't know!

That reference to 'masks of the Pillars' seemed weird to me - what the heck do masks that look like pillars look like? If Pillars refers to the witness stones (which seems most likely), why does he refer to it as 'Pillars' at all. (with a capital P like it's the formal name?) I thought Witness Stones WAS the formal name for .... witness stones....

[Farseer]

I was thinking that the glyphs within the hoods could be like those mentioned by Kettricken on the Skill Road in AQ and then in more detail when she shared them and also played the Out Islanders game (I think!) in the TM series. I only thought this because the glyphs all seemed to signify characters or elements, and the hooded men could be meant to signify them also. Love the theory of them being actual pillars though!

I have finally found the names of the runes from the Out Islander game that Kettricken played with Peottre. These were similar to her Mountain Kingdom runes, and also similar to the various glyphs on the Skill-pillars.

Altogether there were twelve runes, with six that seemed to signify characters and six signifying locations:

Locations

harbour
beach
glacier
cave
mountain
motherhouse

Characters

hunter
warrior
fisher
allmother
smith
weaver

This number of runes is interesting (and could be hugely significant!!) because, for a naming ceremony to occur, a boy needs to have a Man sponsoring him and also twelve other Men present .

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If these DO have a connection with the Man Ceremony, possibly the Men were cloaked and hooded but wore masks that bore the glyph or rune of each character/location on the face? That would make sense to me, regardless if they were people representing the Pillars or actually the Pillars themselves.

Hmm, maybe these facets of the Skill-pillars also mirror the different representations or facets of Sa...whoooo !

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I have spent SO MUCH TIME looking in the books for this list of runes and, guess what? They were already in the wiki !!! Outislander game *sigh* When will I learn to look there FIRST?!

[Mervi]

Yeah but you made the connection with twelve. (Although I'm not sure how to interpret the text here, it mentions that there needs to be a Man ... who must find a dozen other Men. So doesn't that mean there's 13 Men present? (I feel they should add a Hobbit to avoid bad luck ).

[Farseer]

It says in AA, "It requires a Man to sponsor and name the candidate, and he must find a dozen other Men who concede the boy is worthy and ready" so, yes, it does seem that it requires thirteen, including the sponsor. Maybe Fool was the sponsor, naming him as Changer (puts a spin on the gender debate !), and the twelve were the Pillars? Going with the Pillars being the actual Skill-pillars, the Witness Stones (as an example) do deem ones who go there as either worthy or unworthy...