Pre-release City of Dragons (spoilers Farseer, LST, TM and RWC)

[Farseer]

In a bit of a rush so no time to expand (or stop and think!!) at present but I have been existing under the assumption that TM and RWC occurred fairly concurrently post LST? I amended the thread title to include Farseer, TM and RWC spoilers a little while ago but, just in case: *TM, LST and RWC spoilers*

Spoiler

As joost pointed out, the dragons had only recently emerged at the beginning of RWC but they had also emerged at the beginning of TM, in 'Fool's Errand'. When Fool was in the hut with Fitz/Tom, he had spoken of things that had happened in Bingtown, and about the cocooned serpents that would emerge as dragons. He had also sadly told Fitz that the dragons had been stunted when they had emerged. This caused Fool to blame the stunted dragons etc on himself and question his 'White Prophet' actions while in the role of Amber (had he attached himself to the wrong person in Althea when he should have attached himself to Wintrow, the nine-fingered slave boy? etc).

During DK, Malta also speaks of Selden being away and unable to represent Tintaglia and the stunted dragons during discussions surrounding the Kelsingra expedition, and I always understood that he was absent from the Rain Wilds at this time as he was away in the Six Duchies as part of the Bingtown delegation that visited there with Kettricken, Chade and Dutiful during the TM series. It was here when Selden and Fitz met in Buckkeep.

I'll come back and reference these points from the books but it was these and a couple of other things in TM that made me believe that events were taking place around the same time?

I think we need to consider creating a timeline of events at some stage...a task I have been meaning to undertake for a while but I never get to (like the posts from the last couple of weeks!).

['thul]

The best way to get the basics of such a timeline working would be for someone to get the main facts out of RH. These beings will most likely not be able to do that, since RH has no habit of visiting places as far north as where these beings frequent.

[NeverBeenWise]

It is also possible, Farseer, that the Fool's prescience allowed him to see what would happen in the future before he got up to the Six Duchies. He would've known that the dragons would be stunted when he heard the date for them to come out of their cocoons, because their amount of development had nothing else to do with anybody's motives, intentions, or actions. By the time Selden arrived the date would have passed. This way the Fool didn't have to stick around in the Rain Wilds and wait for the dragons to emerge before coming up north and things could have happened even more quickly.

[Farseer]

Please proceed with caution as this thread is now riddled with spoilers for all books!

It is possible that prescience assisted Fool when he spoke of the stunted dragons but he sounds far too specific for me to believe that that's the case (?) and, after his having had a little too much of his Apricot Brandy to drink, I always got the impression that he had not truly intended to share any of it with Fitz?

I have found the passage, which comes from Chapter Eight, 'Old Blood' in FE (page 173 in my UK version):

From anecdotes of the Bingtown Traders, he launched into a wild tale of sea-serpents that entered cocoons to emerge as dragons. When I demanded to know why I had not seen any of these dragons, he shook his head. 'Stunted,' he said sadly. 'They emerged in the late spring, weak and thin, like kittens born too soon. They may yet grow to greatness, but for now the poor creatures feel shamed at their frailty. They cannot even hunt for themselves.' I well recall his look of wide-eyed guilt. His golden eyes bored into me. 'Could it be my fault?' he asked softly, senselessly at the end of his tale. 'Did I attach myself to the wrong person?'...

As for Fool being present at the actual time of emergence or not, it is hard to say based on that passage alone. He could just as easily have heard word from Jek or Althea while making his way back to Fitz in the Six Duchies? Of course, I'd like to think that he had been present at such a significant event....he certainly deserved to be. If he had been, travel for him would have been quite swift from Shoaks onward, after he had purchased Malta?

This begs another question, but I will plop that in another thread.

Fool says that the dragons had emerged in late spring in the Rain Wilds. At the beginning of the above chapter, Fitz notes that it is summer but many of those summer days had passed by the time Fool rode up on his horse.

A detailed comparison of Tintaglia's movements in the RWC and those in TM would be helpful with the timeline of events as well.

[Farseer]

Just going on Fool's mention of 'late spring'...

From what I can gather from Thymara's observations of her surroundings at the beginning of DK, she had witnessed the 'hatching' during the summer (she noted that 'Summer had awakened a million shades of green there' and 'It was not an exceedingly warm day for summer') and Tintaglia herself said that she wanted the summer sun to be full upon the cocoons/dragons before they saw the light, as she didn't think that they would be fully developed by the spring. Either way, it appears that it was precisely on the '15th Day of the Greening Moon' as that was the day that Tintaglia had decreed that the cocoons would finally be exposed to sunlight. Of course, Thymara's observations could have just pointed to those that happen when summer is 'upon' us, not actually 'here' (??) like a 'changing time' eg you can see the affects of summer here in Australia with the heatwaves and storms although it is not yet summer...? I'm stretching things, I know!

The previous chapter had seen Leftrin, in spring, finding the cocoon that had drifted due to the spring floods.

Major Spoilers for TM coming up...!

Just as a little more on the overall timing, Thymara had witnessed the dragons emerging from their cocoons five years prior (when she was eleven) to the time that she'd noted, at age sixteen, that Tintaglia had found a mate after 'Some prince of the far Six Duchies had unearthed the dragon...' ...which is only six chapters into DK and had already happened in the latter stages of FF.

We can't say that events at the end of TM/FF were fully completed by this point in DK though, as much continued to happen in the plot after Tintaglia and Icefyre first took flight, and who is to say how much real time was covered by the notes Fitz inserted into the final pages? eg the events with Fool and the courtship of Molly alone seemed to take forever, not to mention the three years until she and Fitz finally wed, the birth of Prosper and the two visits for hawking etc...

Before they had even chosen to trick the Rain Wilders into taking them to 'Kelsingra, the dragons had also noted that Tintaglia had found a mate...but she had not found Icefyre at the time of their hatching.

As for Selden, it does mention in DK that he was being asked to go off and find out what had happened to Tintaglia and demand her return, and, if he did do this (I can't remember...I REALLY have to re-read DK and DH!!), the timing would not fit with his visit to the SD, which had taken place well prior to the events in Aslevjal. EDIT: Also. Tintaglia was 'with' Selden, in his mind, when he ran into Fitz at Buckkeep.END EDIT. So, I'm not sure why I've been thinking his lack of presence in the Rain Wilds during RWC coincided with his presence in the SD?! As much time as I spend trying to sort these books out, I spend an even greater amount of time waltzing around in circles... ...!

Anyone else have thoughts on the timings of everything and would it be okay if I spilt this thread to allow us to discuss/develop the timing etc even further?

I also considered asking Robin directly re the timeline of events but it is somewhat much more difficult to effectively manage spoilers within the Newsgroup (not to mention it helps us dig up all sorts of riches if we have to do it for ourselves! ). Let's see how we go and then I can ask her to confirm if we are correct...?

[finella]

I don’t know whether this is helpful or not and Farseer has probably pointed it already out, but as far as I remember from DK, Tintaglia cared for the stunted dragons quite some time after they had hatched and then left them more or less alone because of Icefyre’s deliverance. (I’d love to go deeper in your speculations and considerations, but unfortunately I only red DK and DH in english and all the others in german. And that makes it somehow rather difficult because the names of persons and places differ at lot and I sometimes don’t even know, what or who you are talking about. ) Anyway, I follow this thread with great delight, as it is very interesting and brings back so many nice memories.

['thul]

These beings have a feeling that the books are placed not long after each other... Most likely the Kelsingra-baiting probably started either around the birth of Prince Prosper or when said prince reached 2-3 years of age.
Considering how the royal pair had come to like each other, these beings have doubts they would have chosen to postpone working on getting that heir. Unlike near the rain wilds, there is no evidence of any difficulty for the women to get pregnant (there are however, remarkably strong difficulties for the men to do so), it would most likely not have taken more than a few months for it to start. add in 9 months gestation to that, and you get approximately 1 year.


Rather than merely split it out, these beings suggest moving such directly to the wiki. That is where a timeline belongs.
'thul would have started said article, but cant seem to log into wiki right now.


anyways, here's a start:

Late summer, year 1 - Icefyre unburied.
Harvest, year 1 - Marriage of Dutiful & Elliana, dragons fly south to Winter, Year 1 - Dragons fly south to make life difficult for Chalced.
late winter, year 2 - Fitz leaves to visit Molly.
Summer, year 2 - Elliana pregnant
Late summer, year 2 - Fitz and Molly get back together.
Autumn, year 2 - Chivalry, son of Burrich, married.
autumnish, year 3 - First child of chivalry born
Year 3 or 4 - Calling sent out, 12 responded, Steady among them.
year 5 - Second child born
year 5 - Molly, Hearth & Just left for Withywoods.
year 5 - Fitz & Molly married quietly.

[Farseer]

Rather than merely split it out, these beings suggest moving such directly to the wiki. That is where a timeline belongs.
'thul would have started said article, but cant seem to log into wiki right now.

We are Skilled, you and I...okay, not so much on other things but on this matter at least! After I posted, I had the thought that possibly someone may have the time to just start a wiki article and then we can discuss it there, rather than on this thread. Thanks for taking up the challenge, 'thul beings!

Actually, I wish I could just immerse myself in the wiki as there is LOTS still to do... Ah, it doesn't help you, but I have been able to log in with no problems so not sure what the go is there.

@ finella: You amaze me that you can follow discussions here at all. Here am I, supposedly in command of the English language, and having read all of the books in English, and I still can't make head nor tail out of what we discuss! In a tangle as always...

['thul]

it may be that these beings have the wrong password stored. They will try a few more, and if that doesn't work, send a PM to Mervi.

[joost]

The dragons are at least 2 years old during Tawny man ('The golden fool', chapter 11). First the fool talks about the birth of the dragons and the problems feeding them. "So, they all struggle. So it was when last I was on the Rain Wild River, two years ago".