Plot holes (spoilers included) in RotE

[Witted Bastard]

At some point I intend to go back to AQ and read closely the allusions to Realder's Dragon. As I recall, in the scene in the Elderling market square that Fitz and more briefly the Fool witness is the occasion where that time's White Prophet announces to the Elderlings that Realder's Dragon is taking flight.* Fitz also witnesses a past scene in the riven Elderling city where a dragon alights in the Skill river. I don't recall whether any mention was made of that dragon being Realder's Dragon, which would obviously be a mistake.

*My understanding of the Realder's Dragon threads: Salt's Coterie created Realder's Dragon, but Salt held herself back and tried to put herself only into the Girl so that she could retain her humanity after the dragon was quickened. Having understood this, the dragon was named after the coterie member who was most willing to give himself up for it - Realder. That time's White Prophet, and I don't recall if she is ever named, was in love with her Catalyst, who is part of Salt's Coterie but never specifically named as Realder, although we naturally assume that it was he. That Catalyst's role was to take part in the partial creation of Realder's Dragon so that the dragon would remain mired for the Fool and Fitz to find and complete, helping them unlock the secret of how to awaken the dragons, which were needed to assist Verity in the cleansing of Buck and the shores of the Six Duchies, to set up the subsequent events that ultimately led to Icefyre's freedom and the re-propagation of dragons in the world.

A note on repelling - didn't Nighteyes essentially repel at various members of Regal's false coterie through their Skill attacks on Fitz?

[Nuytsia]

I know you said it wasn't a vital point in a later, more recent post than this one that I have quoted, but I believe it is truly vital...particularly to a significant theory I have regarding Fool and Fitz! With Realder being a different dragon, it's all blown to pieces!!! Let me find all of my 'bits' and I'll be back!

omg leave us in suspense no longer!!!!


You know we love Fool and Fitz theories!!!!
ok well maybe just me.

[Farseer]

It's been weighing on my mind and IN CAPITALS on my 'to do' list, I can assure you (I was even mulling over it at breakfast this morning, knowing I hadn't been back here *sigh*!) BUT I don't want to put it down firmly in text until I can get some true concentration time (that doesn't include trying to juggle heaps of other brain-draining jobs!). I don't know why, but the Rooster Crown stuff sends me into a spin...theories are fine but then you have to explain it so others can comprehend it!

I'll give you a tidbit though, and hope I can later come back and do a reasonable job of backing it up...feel free to discuss amongst yourselves in the meantime ...

I believe that Fool and Fitz have known each other many times before in other lives, in other forms. As I've said before, I firmly believe that it is Fool who is "the love that weaves its way in and out" of Fitz's life (and not Molly) BUT I think this love goes beyond the slice of their history that we have so far been made privy to...that this insight from Jinna is more about an on-going relationship between them that stands through time and lives and parallel fates/futures. Much of this is based on comments made by Fool throughout the books but most, I think, is hinged on the Rooster Crown and all of the events/characters relating to it, including Realder and the WP.

As for Realder's dragon, I agree with the Witted Bastard's second paragraph on the understanding of that part (as has been deduced mostly from what we have come to know from FF) BUT I also most definitely followed in AQ that he was a completely different dragon to that which was presented to us in FF. Two quick examples:

* In the stone garden/near the quarry etc, Fitz noted several times that Realder's Dragon was even physically situated well away from Girl-on-a-Dragon. In fact,

* Fool was already flying on the Girl-on-a Dragon's back when Fitz and Nighteyes 'awoke' Realder's dragon and realised only thereafter that it was both blood and the Wit that they would need to rouse them all.

In this, Syrocko is correct in that there seems to be a possible plot hole but, as previously mentioned, it may not be a plot hole as such but merely a show of increased understanding during the flow of events, or the Fool revealing certain points only when required etc.

I will hopefully be back not too far away but I suggest a re-read, at the very least, of *sprints off to get AQ* , ah, Chapter Thirty-Nine in the UK version Verity's Dragon. It doesn't have everything but it clearly shows that, at that time, Fitz and Fool understood Girl-on-a-Dragon to be a different entity to Realder's dragon . Gotta go!!!

[Farseer]

ps Forgot to say, well met and great to have you with us on thePlenty, Witted Bastard (why do I feel like I'm name-calling when I say that ?!).

[Nuytsia]

Heheh sorry didn't mean to put you under pressure!
Hmmm other lives eh?
Well I did think that's what they were referring to when (cannot recall which book, but in the Assassin's trilogy and they were in the Elderling city) they see that vision of the other catalyst (the bard?) wearing the rooster crown and performing, but then I realised it was just 'another life' not THEIR other life. But maybe not so sure now!!!?

I like!

No idea re Realder's dragon and goad....... one day I'll buy all the books and re-read!!

[Nuytsia]

Repelling seems like such a powerful weapon to use against the unwitted. Also in defence, as Fitz uses it against Galen to prevent his blows from causing damage. Fitz even says that it's use comes instinctively to the witted. I would have thought that it would not only be useful in almost any fight, but pretty much automatic. Yet Fitz and other Witted ones seem to rarely take advantage of it, and throughout the series I wondered why.

I just re-read Assassin's Apprentice and it struck me that Fitz actually uses repelling quite a lot, UNTIL the time when he repels at Burrich ...... where he tells him NEVER to do that again ...... but he does right away ..... and gets it reflected back at him....
After that (for the duration of AA) I don't think Fitz repels again.
I guess maybe the confrontation with Burrich put him off doing it ... at least for a while.

[Syrocko]

Yeah I think you're right. Some other things have also occurred to me. Obviously forged ones cannot be repelled against. In the tawny man trilogy, many of Fitz' opponents are witted themselves, which makes repelling a far more risky tactic. As for the battles with the red ship raiders, Fitz barely remembers the battles so for all anyone knows he could have been repelling left right and centre. Fitz does repel against Regal's evil allies sometimes, though I always thought he could have done it more often and more strategically. I especially thought that Fitz should have used repelling defensively more often, the way he did only once against Galen, to prevent his blows from causing damage.

[Nuytsia]

Wow I was right !
Re-reading Royal Assassin now, and at the part where Fitz tries to abandon Nighteyes at the goat shed he talks about repelling:

"It was a force I used but seldom, for once Burrich had turned it against me, and I did not always trust it"

Amazing what information soaks into my brain and I don't even realise it!

['thul]

these beings discovered an interesting plot hole in "assassin's apprentice"...

about 3/4 of the way through the book they saw this:

It was in Piche, an ancient native tongue of Chalced, the southernmost Duchy

If that isnt a hole torn in how the plot evolves, then there's not much that can be such...

[Nuytsia]

I am not sure Galen tried to *kill* Verity? Fitz says he wanted to 'drain him dry'.
I think he wanted to drain his Skill strength to augment his own, and that was his main aim.

Possibly it is easier to intentionally kill with the Skill after the person's Skill strength has been drained to a low level? He may have intended to follow up by killing him.

So, can you Skill-drain a person to death or can't you?........Galen had first attempted to kill Verity by draining him, and would surely not have had much success if draining someone to death were not possible.