Small, random questions about RotE that still bother you (spoilers all RotE books)

[Mervi]

Sorry about the thread title.

As I might have mentioned, we're (re)reading AA over at the Finnish Tolkien board I help to admin, and I've been adding things to the wiki as I browse back and forth. But I've noticed there are several small details that sort of bother me - I'm not sure we ever got answers to these, or maybe I've just forgotten. Anyway, they don't require separate threads necessarily, because there's not much to discuss. And this is not just for me, feel free to add your own unsolved mysteries!

I begin with...

- Who is the "other one" in this quote by Chade when he and Shrewd argue about testing Fitz in chapter 5:

"Break him as you broke the other one!" he'd mutter angrily. "You and your stupid tests!"

- From that same paragraph:

"Don't talk to me about blood and family. Remember who I am to you! It isn't his loyalty she's worrying about, or mine."

I'm not sure but I think it's Chade who speaks, although it could be Shrewd as well. What do you think? I'm pretty sure "she" is Queen Desire... but whose loyalty IS she worried about?

Oh, and. Since I'm still in the same chapter... do you think Fitz's mother's name is "Mere" or is that just a Mountain word for "mother"? Or something else?

['thul]

These beings would guess that the "other one" is an character seed that has yet to take root, they do not know if the seed will ever take root...

[Nuytsia]

Good idea for a thread actually.
Hmm I REALLY should start reading AA again..... (how many times have I said this?)

It could be as 'thul says...... I don't remember the whole context of the conversation but from your quote, the only character I can think of off the top of my head who was 'broken' in their ability to use the Skill was Burrich... and I am not sure Shrewd would have personally had anything to do with him (although I guess it's possible Chivalry WAS Shrewd's son)...
It might just be someone we don't hear about at all - they are quite elderly men so it could be something that happened decades ago!!! Maybe the comment is just meant to demonstrate the dangers of the Skill .... the recent loss of detailed knowledge of it?... Chade's suspicion of it as he doesn't understand it?

Again, taking it out of context, but the second quote seems to be Shrewd talking, and then the person whose loyalty Queen Desire is worried about would be Chade. Seems to fit, Chade is quite devious and I get the impression Queen Desire was quite suspicious!

No idea re Mere. I can't even remember it being mentioned!

[Farseer]

Good one, mervi...I'm thinking that this will become my favourite thread! I considered making one ages ago, because I have a few little questions that couldn't support a whole thread, so am glad you did.

I have always just assumed that 'the other one' was Chivalry as he was broken in the end, and left the throne/Buckkeep behind, despite having been strong enough early on to marry Patience against Shrewd's obvious displeasure. Shrewd later even mistakes Fitz as Chivalry on a number of occasions. If it is Chivalry, I would love to know what 'tests' he had to undertake! Possibly it was Shrewd, with Queen Desire's direction, who had placed Fitz's mother before Chivalry to see if he would turn aside from Patience and be unfaithful to her (not knowing that a future heir and possible rival to Regal would come from the union?!).

I also think it was Chade who spoke the words, "Don't talk to me about blood and family. Remember who I am to you! " Here Chade is reminding Shrewd that he may not be king in title but he would've been, as the older brother of the two, if he had not been a bastard. He is also Shrewd's assassin and behind-the-scenes mentor, sacrificing much, even his identity, for the sake of his king and the Six Duchies. From "It isn't his loyalty she's worrying about, or mine", I got the understanding from this that Shrewd has told Chade to undertake the test to prove Fitz's loyalty, or lack of loyalty rather, to Queen Desire. Once Fitz's loyalty is proven, Shrewd thinks it will lessen Desire's displeasure at Fitz's presence in the castle and she'll leave off from nagging him about it? In his response, Chade is saying here though that Queen Desire isn't truly worried about loyalty, as she is suggesting she is by the need to test Fitz, but is instead worried about the throne and the question of succession. With Chivalry out of the way, and Verity no doubt firmly on her radar, she wants no further complications with regard to Regal's right to his future kingship.

What interests me in this is that if they are talking about Queen Desire, she would only be made aware of the results of the test, and remain oblivious of Chade's role in the test, as she doesn't know that Chade even exists (I'm pretty sure I'm right in this?!). This is why Regal never knew of Chade either, and only came to know of Lady Thyme as a behind-the-scenes meddler.

As for Mere, no, the word 'mère' is French for 'mother' so I think Fitz was simply calling 'Mother', not his mother's actual name?

---

Once Fitz's loyalty is proven, Shrewd thinks it will lessen Desire's displeasure at Fitz's presence in the castle and she'll leave off from nagging him about it?

Oops, forgot to add...alternatively, if Fitz's lack of loyalty is instead proven as a result of the test, it would have given Desire much ammunition for her on-going debate that Shrewd should finally get rid of Fitz permanently? I remember reading a letter penned by Desire to someone in Farrow or Tilth, saying something along the lines of that she couldn't understand why Shrewd hadn't killed Fitz from the beginning...and I think that letter also alluded to the fact that she had successfully taken Chivalry out of the picture via his 'accidental' death?

[Farseer]

If it is Chivalry, I would love to know what 'tests' he had to undertake! Possibly it was Shrewd, with Queen Desire's direction, who had placed Fitz's mother before Chivalry to see if he would turn aside from Patience and be unfaithful to her (not knowing that a future heir and possible rival to Regal would come from the union?!).

Sorry to keep responding to my owns posts ! In having said this above, I am thinking that Chivarly may not have even been with Patience at the time so he may not have been unfaithful to her or that this could possibly have been a test? It had been about seven years since Chivalry had fathered Fitz to the time his grandfather presented him at Moonseye. From something I've read but can't remember (!!), I'm thinking he was single at that stage.

[Farseer]

I haven't thought on this a lot so hope it's not too easy a thing that I have overlooked but, from where was it that Chade was given the surname 'Fallstar'? As far as I remember, it was first mentioned in regard to Starling's song 'Chade Fallstar's Reckoning' at the end of AQ?Is it due to his being a bastard that he was not given the Farseer name? I can't recall Chade mentioning it when he spoke of his origins to Fitz.

As an aside, Fallstar is an awesome surname, don't get me wrong, but it conjures up a negative connotation for me...fall star, like his star fell, as opposed to, say, a rising star, which is a positive thing?

Going on from there, people seem to pronounce Chade's name differently. I have only ever pronounced it as Sh-ade, and this always seemed to me to fit with his shady lifestyle, shady nature and living in the shade rather than out in the light of castle life (it also fits with the Six Duchies name-giving tradition of giving a name to suit a characteristic of the person being named?). As far as I can tell, Fool confirmed this for me the very first time Fitz ever mentioned Chade to him...he said something like 'Shade, light' and this covered up Fitz's public slip very well. If the 'Ch' was pronounced any differently, this little cover-up wouldn't have been workable?

Fell free to put this in its own thread if it's too much for this one, Mervi !

[redchild]

Fallstar sounds an awful lot like Farseer. I'm thinking he made it up himself, with a bit of dramatic flair. Regarding the pronunciation of Chade's name, ch- is pronounced in French as the English sh-.

Speaking of languages, do the people speak different languages in different countries? Or is it a testament to the latent but lingering Skill ability in humans to understand each other (with awareness to dialects) despite differences in language?

['thul]

These beings sense a vague middle-eastern and/or roman tendency in chalced. But not a pure tendency.

Bingtown bears a resemblence to colonial times.

The biggest difference is that all the cultures are in around iron ages... They have steel and such, but they do not have any forms of firearms... The sole long-range weapons are catapults, ballistae and bows. that changes a lot where culture is concerned...

[Nuytsia]

Farseer re your take on the first quote, I can't recall a lot about Chivalry... do you mean he was 'broken' in some general sense, or something about his Skill ability was broken?
I just assumed that quote was referring to Skill ability?

Re the second quote, I wouldn't have read it that way.... was the word 'loyalty' in italics or something?
(then again, if I read the WHOLE passage I MAY have read it that way... I really should get all the books!)

Re Fallstar, I THOUGHT I recalled Chade saying something about it at some stage but I may well be wrong there.... a very vague thought....
Yes, it isn't exactly a positive name.... redchild I'm not sure he'd apply it to himself by choice, but then again maybe he DOES have a bit of a matyr streak now that I think of it .......

On the subject of different languages... hmm I am sure I have seen that point brought up somewhere else..... or maybe in relation to other fantasy authors books! I guess they just have a 'suspension of disbelief' around the issue of languages sometimes....

[Mervi]

Chade is actually one of the few names that Robin has ever commented on re: pronunciation - it is indeed meant to be sound just like "shade". But as to his name, I'm not even sure it was originally Chade... after all he introduces himself to Fitz as "You can call me Chade. And I shall call you?" And when Fitz doesn't answer, he says "Boy. Those are not names for either of us, but they'll do, for the time we'll have together." (emphasis mine)

The Six Duchies have one language, the Out Islands another (but these two are related) and the Chalced have yet another. But I'm not sure about Rain Wilds/Jamaillian...?

I'm kind of thinking the "other one" that was broken was someone else they had tried to train as an assassin but who had failed the task(s).