Blue Boots in Songs of Love and Death, SPOILERS for everything

[Farseer]

This to-ing and fro-ing between you both is only making me want to read it all the more ! What's probably the worst thing is that I could have actually purchased it while in Townsville yesterday...knowing it's for a good cause (thePlenty!) makes the wait worthwhile though .

The 'blue' aspect of the blue boots interests me, given that blue is the colour for Buck Duchy (and also the colour of House Farseer?). Hmm...

It is also listed as a ROTE linked story here on wikipedia.

[Farseer]

One oddity made me hopeful too - Timbal describes "the queen" bidding a farewell to an aristocratic couple and then when a king is mentioned I started to wonder what they were doing visiting such a minor keep... but then from the context it's clear that these titles refer to the lord and the lady of the keep.

Having not read it yet, it is impossible for me to make an informed comment with regard to the actual text or characters etc but Kettricken has never been prone to do things as they have been done by previous Six Duchies queens and Dutiful, having been raised by her as "Sacrifice" more than "King", would no doubt also do things differently than the Six Duchies kings of the past.

In this, either of them would think nothing more or nothing less of visiting a lesser keep than they would visiting a keep of elevated status anywhere within the SD or even the wider realm, I wouldn't think eg they would tend to treat an everyday citizen of Buck the same as they would treat even the Satrap. No doubt this change of behaviour/change in thinking is one of the changes that may help the world to change its current course?

[Mervi]

Agreed on Kettricken being different, but I'm placing this story in my head even further along in the future, to a time when either Dutiful or even Prosper is the ruler. Which would make the queen ... well, Elliania or some future wife of Prosper we haven't met yet. BUT I have to stress that there's nothing concrete in the story that would help us place it in the timeline - for all we know this could be before Fitz' time! (However, if one takes the wild leap and assumes Just is the same Just, even with all the evidence stating he can't be... it WOULD make sense that the Farseer family is visiting his keep. However, even with Kettricken and Dutiful's humble ways, I would think the folks in the keep would have reacted to actual royalty visiting in a more notable manner. So I'm just assuming it's either author's error or the young Timbal being overly impressed by her new surroundings.)

[Farseer]

I didn't bother with the intro until I'd finished !

Now, I also have to disagree with you, joost. While the concept of gods may be present in any world, it could also be said that Elderling-like races and the use of prophecy and thought/mind-to-mind communication are also present in many, if not most, fantasy worlds (does that detract from my rant regarding other authors sharing these elements of RH's works ??!!). El and Eda and their connections to the land and sea/water were clear as part of the SD story, as was Timbal's true belief in their existence.

The hair and eye combination was firm (you know that's a post for another thread, and I'm glad you noticed it too Mervi !!) as well as the role of minstrels etc. Actually, I found it an interesting addition to learn that the role of a minstrel was to also be a "keeper of dreams". I connected this immediately with Starling's relationship with Fitz, and have to admit that I viewed her actions toward him from a slightly different, and less hostile, angle afterward. She knew his dreams of home and hearth etc and he was as close to living them with her as anyone, prior to his discovery of her marriage. Her presence in his life, though fleeting and irregular, still allowed him to dream and it was only this discovery of Starling's extramarital affair that fully and finally shattered his dreams in a way, even more so than even Molly and Burrich's unity had (at least for the time that he was able to continue not truly participating in his life). Still thinking on that one though!

What else? Ah, the relationship between Azen and Timbal made me wonder about Garetha and her feelings for Fool/Lord Golden. Did she fall in love with Fool in a similar fashion? Did she ever discover his true role? Azen's gabbling on with "nonsense" at the beginning of his tryst with Timbal put me in mind of Fool, and sharpened my sense that Fool truly had placed himself in a role when he played "the King's Fool".

The funny children's song performed by Chrissock (about an old man who lived up a steep flight of steps and who had numerous late night visitors) made me think of Chade and the late nights he'd shared up in his room with Fitz and others. Not to mention Timbal's recalling that there there had been songs sung about "such things" as Azen's "affair" with Lady Lucent to produce an heir ... while I can't recall anything specifically mentioned in AQ, there was no doubt a song or puppet show that did the rounds regarding the rumours that Regal started regarding Fitz having fathered an heir for Verity with Kettricken, in the same way it was assumed that Azen would give an heir to Lord Just with Lady Lucent. Possibly it was one of these that Timbal had heard of.

I imagined that the many songs of warriors and their bravery shared by Chrissock may have included Anter Island Tower, or even a retelling of Dutiful's tale while in the Out Islands !

Lord Spindrift's cruel treatment of his horses and dogs showed us that he obviously was not Old Blood, but what of Lord Just? Ah, the plot thickens !! Did we know for certain that Burrich's Just was not Witted or Skilled? He was only young when we knew him so may have shown traits of either of these later on? Due to his reaction to Spindrift's cruelty, possibly he was Old Blood himself or was, if not Witted, more "aware" of animals than most ... if he is Burrich's Just, either of these would fit as the latter could be attributed to having lived with Burrich, been raised by Fitz and having Swift as a brother. Of course, he may not be Burrich's but is merely "just" in all things, including the treatment of animals.

If he IS Burrich's, how did he come by the title, as Mervi questioned? Molly was justifiably given the title of "Lady" when she went to court but would Just be entitled to taking on the mantle of "Lord"? Did the lands that were given to Burrich (really Nettle but you know what I mean!) give him and Molly the titles of Lord and Lady, and so their children would thereafter be entitled to become lords and ladies also, particularly given that their lands were those once handled by Prince Chivalry himself? Being raised by Lord FitzChivalry as a step-father may have also helped with his title as well but nobody else is aware of that status but possibly, as warden of Withywoods, Fitz could legitimately take on the title in the role of Tom anyway?

While Blue Boots may not have contributed as much to the overall "understanding" of the main tale, such as what happened with The Inheritance, Words Like Coins and Homecoming (at least that I can think of for the moment), it most certainly hinted at these lesser elements and also detailed more of the Six Duchies region for us. Now to look back over the clues for various new locations we've been given eg Timberrock Keep; Smithfield; high, forested land; high sheep pastures; a location that could require a couple of days for the King's Patrol to reach and a forested region beside a river, and then apply them to our map!!

I am probably looking at it through rose-coloured glasses but I loved it simply because it was another crumb of the RotE cake .

Oh, Mervi, I think I agree with your "the young Timbal being overly impressed by her new surroundings" thought re the use of her words "king" and "queen" for Just and Lucent. The mention of an "aristocratic couple" who had come to visit, could just as well have been Fitz and Molly , if not Dutiful and Elliana.

I must go to participate in Operation Christmas Tree with my family!

[Farseer]

Just thinking on all of this...

As much as I'd LOVE for it to be Burrich's Just (and more than possible, seeing as TM was fifteen years after the Farseer trilogy?), Robin does have a habit of duplicating names over one or two books and this may just be another case? Examples of this would be:

1. Hest was the name of a member of the Six Duchies guard in TM and then the name for Hest, the bad guy, in the RWC

2. Malta was used for Malta the Elderling and also Fool’s horse

3. Chivalry was used for both Burrich’s lord (Prince/King-in-Waiting Chivalry) and also his eldest son

4. The name Bolt was given to Regal’s henchman and also to Bolt, Vivacia’s dragon

Ah, okay, that’s all I can think of but there does seem to be some deliberate name duplicating/linking-between-the-books going on? Not taking into account all the other little name and word links throughout eg using the word 'nettled' to describe a feeling and then we have 'Nettle' etc?

[Farseer]

One oddity made me hopeful too - Timbal describes "the queen" bidding a farewell to an aristocratic couple and then when a king is mentioned I started to wonder what they were doing visiting such a minor keep... but then from the context it's clear that these titles refer to the lord and the lady of the keep. I don't know if this is young Timbal's mistake (or even possibly the authors) because obviously there's only one king & queen at a time in 6D.

I have "just" come across something in AA that may, or may not, shed some light on this use of "king" and "queen" without capitals (within the RotE at least). It comes from Chapter Twenty-Three, "The Wedding" where August is warning Burrich:

" 'I am to say to you, Burrich, that King-in-Waiting Verity is not unaware of how you attempted to help the bastard escape, serving him as if he were your king instead of Verity. You will be judged.'

Also this, a little later from Burrich:

" 'If you succeed, our king may live. That is what I am sworn to. And you?' He made it all seem so simple. "

In both these instances where a lower-case 'k' is used, Verity is the "king" actually being referred to and, yet, we know it is not he but Shrewd who is the Six Duchies "King".

In contrast, we then have this from August:

" 'He did. He said you were once the best of King's men to Chivalry, but apparently you had forgotten how to aid those who truly serve the King.' "

Here "King" seems to me to directly denote Shrewd, not Verity.

Having now read this, I am fairly certain there are other instances where this has occurred (will confirm that as I go through!), and so "king" and "queen" may also refer to others within the royal family (or possibly just the people who are "in-Waiting"?) rather than the actual ruling monarch, which is differentiated by the use a capital?

[Nuytsia]

Yay got the SoLaD from the library and of course read Blue Boots immediately! (haven't read anything else from it yet)

Hmmm well I must say I wasn't super impressed, as I found the main characters fairly unlikeable. That minstrel was just plain creepy. Nice to have some tidbits from the good old 6D's though.

....Robin does have a habit of duplicating names over one or two books and this may just be another case? Examples of this would be:

1. Hest was the name of a member of the Six Duchies guard in TM and then the name for Hest, the bad guy, in the RWC
2. Malta was used for Malta the Elderling and also Fool’s horse
3. Chivalry was used for both Burrich’s lord (Prince/King-in-Waiting Chivalry) and also his eldest son
4. The name Bolt was given to Regal’s henchman and also to Bolt, Vivacia’s dragon

Hmm I must admit it hadn't even occurred to me that Lord Just was possibly the grown up child of Burrich and Molly.... mainly because I forgot that had a child with that name!!!!!
Robin does seem to occasionally use names more than once, but I think that examples 2 and 3 above have 'in world' reasons (not just a coincidence)..... the others seem to just be unrelated so yes it could be like those..... and I must say I was a bit thrown when I re-read Farseer trilogy and found the guy called Bolt! (who I'd forgotten) Made me think of the 'dragon' immediately.

Gees that usage of 'king' and 'queen' in the story is just weird. (and I hadn't noticed it!) I really think she is referring to the Lord and Lady, especially as she mentions the 'king' being in a pole chair; presumably that's Lord Just as he cannot walk.

['thul]

there is one problem with him being descendant of burrich and molly... There is no extended family that can explain the "lord spindrift" character. Burrich had no known family, let alone noble family, and whatever family Molly might have left, none of it was noble...

The story was fairly nice and small, not dragging in too many odd elements, but rather giving a viewpoint of how a regular citizen of the six duchies would be, without any knowledge of magics perilous...

If El and Eda truly have some power, then it might've been demonstrated in this story... Timbal cursed in his name, and survived. After all, prayers to El are curses and no begging... (last to beg, did after all become the pocked man)

[Farseer]

As much as I'd LOVE for it to be Burrich's Just (and more than possible, seeing as TM was fifteen years after the Farseer trilogy?), Robin does have a habit of duplicating names over one or two books and this may just be another case? Examples of this would be:

1. Hest was the name of a member of the Six Duchies guard in TM and then the name for Hest, the bad guy, in the RWC

2. Malta was used for Malta the Elderling and also Fool’s horse

3. Chivalry was used for both Burrich’s lord (Prince/King-in-Waiting Chivalry) and also his eldest son

4. The name Bolt was given to Regal’s henchman and also to Bolt, Vivacia’s dragon

Given that Robin has said that "Blue Boots Falls during the Assassin’s Apprentice/ Royal Assassin time" we can lay this question of Lord Just's identity to rest. The Lord Just from Blue Boots cannot possibly be Burrich and Molly's Just, but simply someone who shares his name.