[split] Names, pronouns, articles... and gender

[joost]

Oh, would you also care to share the background behind your new avatar?

It's a picture of someone dressed up as Ragged Robin from The invisibles.

[Nuytsia]

Well here's some old news on how it goes in Sweden...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402114,00.html

I think you can pretty well call your child whatever you want in Australia, however they do draw the line at SOME names apparently - eg in Qld at least the rules say "The child’s first names and surname is a matter of choice for the parents. However the Registrar-General may refuse to register a name which is obscene, offensive, is too long or is contrary to public interest."

[Albertosaurus Rex]

What the hell? Budweiser? McDonalds? Seriously, those parents should be ashamed of themselves.

['thul]

there was a couple somewhere a couple of years ago that wanted to name a child @

[redchild]

I read an article not long ago about a couple who would not refer to their child as a boy or girl (I forget which sex it actually is,) hoping that the child will come to terms with its gender identity on its own instead.

A number of people consider it cruel, including the couple's parents. I haven't formed an opinion but I think it's a great idea for an experiment. Though no doubt the child will go through much confusion and difficulty from society. It would be interesting to hear what the child thinks about this when it gets older.

[Farseer]

As the child got older, the harder and harder it would be to shelter him/her from outside influences though, especially if those outside influences did not agree with the couple's approach eg if the parents were against it, you would imagine that the couple would need to keep the child from being with them in a fully developed grandparent/grandchild relationship, in 'alone' situations at least (?), to prevent the grandparents from introducing their labelling. ..not to mention others such as visitors, adult friends and also young friends of the child. A friend's parent only has to call out, "Girls, stay away from the road" or a stranger say, "My, what a handsome young man you are" and there are some instant gender labels. Even the matter of separate public toilet facilities could be cause for the child to question their own and others' gender, even at a very young age.

Moving into school it would be even more difficult as often the most simple tasks are gender grouped, such as, "Girls line up here behind Kate and boys line up here behind Jim."

[joost]

I read an article not long ago about a couple who would not refer to their child as a boy or girl (I forget which sex it actually is,) hoping that the child will come to terms with its gender identity on its own instead.

This reminds me of the Orthe books by Mary Gentle. The Orthean children are neutral (and referred to as ke) until approximately 15 when they change into their true gender. The Ortheans are very surprised to hear that human children are born sexed, and someone commented (approx.) 'How would a child know what gender it is?'.

[Albertosaurus Rex]

I read an article not long ago about a couple who would not refer to their child as a boy or girl (I forget which sex it actually is,) hoping that the child will come to terms with its gender identity on its own instead.

A number of people consider it cruel, including the couple's parents. I haven't formed an opinion but I think it's a great idea for an experiment. Though no doubt the child will go through much confusion and difficulty from society. It would be interesting to hear what the child thinks about this when it gets older.

I've been thinking a lot about gender identity recently. There is so much behavior that is considered to be typically "male" or "female" which seems completely arbitrary to me. The subject I study at university, religious studies, is very small nearly exclusively taken by women. In my first year, I used to say that I was 10% of the first year students of religious studies all by myself and 50% of the guys attending it - and that's not a joke, it's the literal truth. Although the other guy very rarely showed up. I sometimes get questions from people I know - "Don't you hate it, to have only girls around?" Which I never understand - it's not like girls are from another planet. (Although, yes, some conversations you can only have with other guys. I've had some pretty weird conversations involving sexuality.)

I don't want to keep blathering on about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, but I think a show like that is a step in the right direction. The main characters are strong and nearly exclusively female and run the whole spectrum from "girly" to "boyish" (There's the expected behavior again), while stereotypes like "girls who are obsessed with fashion and boys" are mercifully absent. (There is one pony, Rarity, who is into fashion - but she's a designer with her own clothing store.) It certainly doesn't teach girls (Still the primary target audience, despite all the adults like me watching) the old stereotypes.

[KekPafrany]

Wow Finnish has only gender neutral pronouns?????? I had no idea that any language had that!

Well... not only the Finnish, the Hungarian pronouns are gender neutral. So there is no "he" or "she". Tthe only difference between if it's a person or an object (and usually: animals are defined object too).