[split] Names, pronouns, articles... and gender

['thul]

These beings will drop a PM soon then...

It is quite often fun to see how people confuse genders when given motive to think the opposite. These beings know one person that for quite a while masqueraded as female (while actually being male) and still has people think him female, years later.

These beings have also experimented with it, with some level of success... They never outright claimed on that account to be female but never denied the possibility either, but both characters of that account were female, so people assumed the same for its users.

[Nuytsia]

Re: the cover - it's not exactly a state secret that yes indeed I'm a female. It's just become a sort of inside joke over the years because a lot of people online refer to me as a he - sometimes even people who *know* the truth, like Robin. I used to think it was just a mistake (Finnish language doesn't differentiate between genders like that, we have only one word for "he" and "she", so I myself often mix the pronouns, especially when speaking because it's something I have to concentrate on to remember to "choose" ). But yeah, it happens often enough and by people who are native English speakers that I've started to wonder what it is about my online presence that makes many people think I'm a male. Not that I care, either way.

Heh heh I always thought you were female, but I couldn't exactly say why..... well I think the name Mervi sounds more female than male for starters....

Wow Finnish has only gender neutral pronouns?????? I had no idea that any language had that!

(why couldn't I have been made to learn Finnish instead of German!!!)

['thul]

These beings had thought it the opposite way. When they pronounce the name "mervi" they automatically think male... Or something like that...

There is, of course, also that silly "internet rule 30"

the so-called rules of the Internet

[Image: 1194679739296.jpg]

[Farseer]

Wow Finnish has only gender neutral pronouns?????? I had no idea that any language had that!

I had heard something vague before but never really thought about it, I must admit...puts a different perspective on the other 'gender' debate though, when entire languages deem the need to differentiate the genders as unimportant on a literary level!!

As for the name Mervi, I instantly thought 'male' the very first time I saw it, as a shortened form of Mervyn, like Merv (eg Merv Hughes the cricketer). I've never known a female to have a version of the name, or anything remotely like it, but I guess I don't 'know' too many people outside Australia! Still, it's interesting to hear that you thought of it as being more female than male, Nuytsia (seeing as you are also in Australia).

Just did a name search and discovered that Mervi is a rather popular Finnish name for a girl!

That all being said, I though the 'thul beings were predominately female but it appears that they are male?!

['thul]

These beings are indeed male, and they have not intentionally tried to hide that here, so they are rather surprised that you had confused it...

[Farseer]

Ah, you were just 'thul beings, so I suppose I simply gave you the same gender as mine!

I don't think there was ever a hint either way until you said:

They never outright claimed on that account to be female but never denied the possibility either

Apologies 'thul beings!!

['thul]

I don't think there was ever a hint either way until you said:

They never outright claimed on that account to be female but never denied the possibility either

Apologies 'thul beings!!

no problem... 'thul are very hard beings to offend... so have no fear, you did not offend them in any way... Nothing to apologize for, since no offense had been taken...

Ah, you were just 'thul beings, so I suppose I simply gave you the same gender as mine!

That might actually be the answer to how many assign genders when they do not know and do not have facts to base things on...

Though they no longer have idea if that was the case, these beings may have once thought you (Farseer) were male too... But your posts fairly quickly corrected that misconception, if it ever existed...

Genders on the internet are very hard to guess, and to a limited degree, they are possible to fake...

[Mervi]

Hehee, I think I should split the conversation since we're so off-topic now. Just to add a few bits to the pot:

- As similar as Mervi looks to Mervyn (and its variants) or Merve (which is in use in Turkey and was also an ancient city somewhere in modern Iran I think) it has nothing to do with either name. It was first used as a first name in 1911 and is said to be derived from the name of a medieval mansion here in Finland - but no one seems to know the actual etymology (which bothers me quite a bit).

- I've always thought that the obsession that some languages have (I'm looking at you, German and Spanish) to define EVERYTHING with a gender and then letting it affect how the rest of the sentence is formed is rather silly. How can I know whether lettuce is "female" or broccoli "male" in the minds of Spanish people? (For the record, I don't, those were just examples.) The first few words in German I learned were: das Auto, der Hund und die Katze. Look, I understand that non-living objects are gender-neutral. But animals? I think labeling dogs as masculine and cats as feminine has HUGE implications, both for the animals and for what is considered "feminine" or "masculine" in humans.

- That being said, while we only have gender-neutral pronouns and don't use gender-defining articles (err actually we don't have articles at all OH THE SHOCK, THE HORROR ) we do have rather strict name laws that prevent (among other things) giving a "girl's" name to a boy or the other way around. Most, although not all, Finnish names are clearly boy or girl names. There have been a couple of recorded males with my name in the past though, before the name laws changed and there are still a handful of names that, when you hear them you can't be sure of the gender (especially since you can't use a gendered pronoun to give that detail). Those are mostly "old people's names" though and not fashionable so it's almost rare to hear them now.

['thul]

Rather practical both systems. Good idea that splitting...

[redchild]

I've heard of a couple who named their baby with letters and digits.

How's THAT for gender-neutral?