Feb-27-2013, 12:49 PM (UTC)
(This post was last modified: Feb-27-2013, 03:40 PM (UTC) by ArtanisG.)
(Feb-27-2013, 05:43 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Throughout the Farseer, Tawny Man and Liveship trilogies Sa was referred to as her and she. I do not remember anyone thinking of Sa as male. I accepted Sa was female early on and if it was ever stressed how Sa was whatever depending on who was speaking it was not something important in light of other activities taking place. If Wintrow was the only character to define Sa accurately I wasn't paying as much attention when so many other characters referenced Sa as feminine.Truth be told, the quote by Wintrow is the first time in the books when it is said Sa is also a female. Before that, Sa was mentioned either by name or referred to as 'he' not only by Wintrow but also by Ronica and others.
It even didn't take me much time to find a quote:
"...all in Sa's hands.' Her mother spoke earnestly to her nephew. "I believe that He has sent you back to us..."
Not to forget sailors and their colorful curses: "You made our man look bad, and by Sa's balls, we don't stand still for that" (said by Torg by the way).
It's not my fault you were not paying attention when such a huge number of characters referenced Sa as male.
(Feb-27-2013, 05:43 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Besides, a parallel to a god is not a requirement to prove or disprove the hermaphrodite argument.Well, the parallel to a god is quite a parallel to me. And it was you who said:
(Feb-27-2013, 05:43 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: The Fool could not be this "sequential hermaphrodite" because Robin Hobb never introduced the concept.I just argued that it was introduced.
(Feb-27-2013, 05:43 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: Posting the text verbatim would help here as I only remember the subject mentioned in the context of White Prophets.The quote was there in the thread a few comments before mine but anyway:
"At the core of the White Prophet heresy is the concept that for ‘every age’ (and this space of time is never defined) there is born a White Prophet. The White Prophet comes to set the world on a better course. He or she (and in this duality of gender we may see some borrowing from the true faith of Sa) does this by means of his or her Catalyst..."
(Feb-27-2013, 05:43 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: You initially referred to this figure as a "girl" and that is distinct from "woman" used now. "...the legend tells a story of a girl who stayed young for years and years, whose hair was black..."And I also said that it wasn't an exact quote. By girl I meant a young woman but not a child.
(Feb-27-2013, 05:43 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: It is unlikely that a White Prophet would develop dark hair and still have light skin.And why exactly do you think that her skin was light?
(Feb-27-2013, 07:12 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: Is there any proof that he is as old as the events that tore the world? Or might he have arisen after that? (these beings do not recall that part precisely)He told this to Fitz:
"I failed. With the old ones I came here. We were the last ones and we knew it. The other cities had gone empty and still. But I had seen there was still a chance, a slight chance, that all might go back to what had been. When the dragon came, at first he gave me hope. But he was full of despair, sick with it like a disease. Into the ice he crawled".
(Feb-27-2013, 07:49 AM (UTC))o0Ampy0o Wrote: I don't remember whether Pilkrop said he continued to receive ideas about things to do but was unable to follow through on them. In his isolation Pilkrop seemed to have lost the opportunity to inject change, at least until Fitz and The Fool arrived.(Why do you all call him Pilkrop?..)
The continuation of the abstract above:
"I tried. I visited him, I pleaded, I encouraged. But he turned from me to seek death. And that left nothing to me. No hopes. There was only the waiting. For so long, I had nothing. I saw nothing. The future darkened, the chances narrowed. <...> One vision is left to me. A tiny peep... no! A tiny glimpse of what could be. It was not certain, ever, but it was a chance".
Prilkop lost the opportunity to change when he lost his Changer. That is why it is said that a White Prophet is born for every age - before meeting a Catalyst (who is a human and lives not longer than a hundred years) and after their death, a White Prophet is just a prophet with visions of possible future.