Jul-20-2011, 04:20 AM (UTC)
No time to sit at the keyboard (argh!) but posting just so you all know that I'm not avoiding this! 
Of all the threads on here, this is one of two (along with The Skill and the Wit) that I really want to get stuck into but don't have the time or brain power to give it the full attention it deserves. Time as such that I should have taken before posting all this in the first place! That having been said...
I've since thought of a couple of references that back up the thinking that the 'Forging' process seems to not take memories, as such, but rather the connections. The main one that comes to mind is the Forged girl who Chade closely studied. She confirms it as, if I recall correctly, she remembered her family members, life she lived prior to Forging etc but was still acting in the usual 'Forged fashion'.
This is in line with what FoolishGirl was saying earlier about a Forged person still being able to remember family. I'll try to get back here soon and reference at least that passage (wherever it is!) as I think it was quite detailed due to it being kind of an experiment or series of tests that Chade had undertaken personally. He'd had the girl or young woman placed in a cell, I think, given her items from her past that she had once cherished but suddenly had no interest in and such, if anyone else can recall it or where it was mentioned?
As far as I can tell, what causes the grey area here (for ME at least! ) is the 'memory stone' element and this creates confusion in my thinking as we know that memory stone is used in the Forging process. I must admit I was being stubborn and blinkered in that I was overly thinking way too much on how Fitz felt when the simulacra were flying overhead at the end of AQ and took memories with them eg he was unsure of what he'd been thinking only moments before. From what I could understand, this was the taking of actual memories, and not the deletion of any kind of emotional connection or attachment (but, who knows, possibly some connection to something or other was also taken in the process?). Of course, contact here was also only fleeting and not sustained by any means. It also appeared to only hamoer his short-term memories and didn't seem to do anything in the long term?
Fitz had said something (not sure where) about it actually being the Six Duchies who had first created Forging, and not the Outislanders, during the time of King Wisdom's treating with the Elderlings and waging war on the Out Islands. It was back then when the simulacra flew overhead that memories of the Outislanders were taken and, enraged by this, the Outislanders sought a similar revenge and thus planned to create simulacra of their own to do the same to the Six Duchies folk (of course, the Pale Woman had her own agenda here, too, and thus wielded all this and Kebal Rawbread to her own White Prophety-advantage). Then, continuing things seemingly as per the cyclical rut that Time's Wheel currently finds/found itself in (?), Fitz awakened the simulacra to once more unwittingly 'Forge' the Outislanders to end the Forging of Six Duchies folk. No doubt the union of the SD and the Out Islands, and the downfall of the PW and Kebal Rawbread, will have shifted things to a new course at least as far as recurrent Forging/war with the Outislanders go.
Pfft...
...I have lost my total train of thought already, if I ever even had it! 
*blundering on blindly*
Memory stone seems to, at times (?), act differently depending on the form it takes, and the contents it lacks/already contains. We've chatted about it a little in the Elderlings Creation thread and elsewhere in the forums. Still, as much as we seem to think we know, there's as much we don't or are still guessing at. Actually, I'm think I knew more a year ago but have overthought it all too much and am now just guessing or even 'confused'...!
I also think I have gone on a wayward tangent to my main thought that there is a possible, deliberate and maybe even evil relationship between the overall loss of memories, connections and also knowledge that has caused disunity within the realm.
There is so much more I'd like to respond to re this memories/Forging business but I'll have to come back at a later stage...fair dinkum, this has already taken hours of my coming back and forward to add a word here and there and I have no idea what I'm even saying!
Of all the threads on here, this is one of two (along with The Skill and the Wit) that I really want to get stuck into but don't have the time or brain power to give it the full attention it deserves. Time as such that I should have taken before posting all this in the first place! That having been said...
I've since thought of a couple of references that back up the thinking that the 'Forging' process seems to not take memories, as such, but rather the connections. The main one that comes to mind is the Forged girl who Chade closely studied. She confirms it as, if I recall correctly, she remembered her family members, life she lived prior to Forging etc but was still acting in the usual 'Forged fashion'.
This is in line with what FoolishGirl was saying earlier about a Forged person still being able to remember family. I'll try to get back here soon and reference at least that passage (wherever it is!) as I think it was quite detailed due to it being kind of an experiment or series of tests that Chade had undertaken personally. He'd had the girl or young woman placed in a cell, I think, given her items from her past that she had once cherished but suddenly had no interest in and such, if anyone else can recall it or where it was mentioned?
As far as I can tell, what causes the grey area here (for ME at least!
) is the 'memory stone' element and this creates confusion in my thinking as we know that memory stone is used in the Forging process. I must admit I was being stubborn and blinkered in that I was overly thinking way too much on how Fitz felt when the simulacra were flying overhead at the end of AQ and took memories with them eg he was unsure of what he'd been thinking only moments before. From what I could understand, this was the taking of actual memories, and not the deletion of any kind of emotional connection or attachment (but, who knows, possibly some connection to something or other was also taken in the process?). Of course, contact here was also only fleeting and not sustained by any means. It also appeared to only hamoer his short-term memories and didn't seem to do anything in the long term?Fitz had said something (not sure where) about it actually being the Six Duchies who had first created Forging, and not the Outislanders, during the time of King Wisdom's treating with the Elderlings and waging war on the Out Islands. It was back then when the simulacra flew overhead that memories of the Outislanders were taken and, enraged by this, the Outislanders sought a similar revenge and thus planned to create simulacra of their own to do the same to the Six Duchies folk (of course, the Pale Woman had her own agenda here, too, and thus wielded all this and Kebal Rawbread to her own White Prophety-advantage). Then, continuing things seemingly as per the cyclical rut that Time's Wheel currently finds/found itself in (?), Fitz awakened the simulacra to once more unwittingly 'Forge' the Outislanders to end the Forging of Six Duchies folk. No doubt the union of the SD and the Out Islands, and the downfall of the PW and Kebal Rawbread, will have shifted things to a new course at least as far as recurrent Forging/war with the Outislanders go.
Pfft...
...I have lost my total train of thought already, if I ever even had it! *blundering on blindly*
Memory stone seems to, at times (?), act differently depending on the form it takes, and the contents it lacks/already contains. We've chatted about it a little in the Elderlings Creation thread and elsewhere in the forums. Still, as much as we seem to think we know, there's as much we don't or are still guessing at. Actually, I'm think I knew more a year ago but have overthought it all too much and am now just guessing or even 'confused'...!
I also think I have gone on a wayward tangent to my main thought that there is a possible, deliberate and maybe even evil relationship between the overall loss of memories, connections and also knowledge that has caused disunity within the realm.
There is so much more I'd like to respond to re this memories/Forging business but I'll have to come back at a later stage...fair dinkum, this has already taken hours of my coming back and forward to add a word here and there and I have no idea what I'm even saying!
"I am the Catalyst, and I came to change all things. Prophets become warriors, dragons hunt as wolves."
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