Nov-01-2011, 08:18 AM (UTC)
Finally someone that disagrees... Good...
The conclusion about incapability of having living children comes from several sources.
One part is the fact that even after the many years that passed from the liveship books through the first two rain wild books, Malta never had a child that survived. The rain wild traders, and to a smaller degree Bingtown traders, already have an unusually high stillbirth rate (or birth of non-human children). The only logical reason 'thul can think of, is that the people of the cursed shores spend too much time in the proximity of the stuff of dragons.
The children that are visibly non-human, are left to die, so though Elderling changes do happen, only the invisible changes are allowed to live beyond birth. Humans have no common tendency towards stillbirth, whereas Elderlings do have such tendency, or rather, have a tendency towards not having many children. The reason for that last tendency is that Elderlings are a long-lived species. The longer a lifespan, the less children there are, since it otherwise would cause overpopulation.
An open wound, as explained by Sylve/Mercor is more easily affected by the proximity to stuff of dragons. These beings believe that can be explained by the fact that it is actively growing. Elderling changes are also active growth, only not following human patterns. Thus the changes will see no reason not to utilize the already occurring growth in a wound.
A baby still in the womb, is also growing, much faster than a common wound at that. Thus logic would indicate that the changes will also occur there. Since a child in the womb does not have a fully functional body already, it is far too easy for the stuff of dragons to change something that should not be changed, preventing the child from being viable for life.
To explain the theory on why a child growing in a Half-Elderling/half-human would not be viable even if there is no dragon nearby, one might have to go down to the DNA level. It is obvious that dragons, humans and Elderlings have very different DNA structure. The two former are stable constructions, whereas the latter is a mix of the two former. 'thul guess that when the changes occur, the structure of the human DNA is meticulously dismantled, with new, draconic parts added in. Until the changes are complete, the structure is still unstable. If your body is unsure of its own DNA, how could you possibly pass on anything stable to your offspring?
What you describe in the first part of that text, is how some dragons like to claim the facts are. Especially dragon queens. A dragon carrying a basket would be a way a dragon would be able to move its Elderling, without the hubris-triggered shame of having it on its back.
These beings would guess that statue portrays something that is still beyond their understanding. It is easy to guess possible meanings, but certain ones are still impossible.
anyways, on to earlier parts of your post...
Winthrow may not have had enough Elderling ancestry in him to understand dragons. At least not yet. He had spent quite a bit of time around serpents, but not around dragons. There is no indications that serpents could make Elderlings. They are, after all children. Thus there was nothing around him to let him change. If She Who Remembers had survived and managed to cocoon then hatch, it is quite possible that she might have chosen Winthrow as her Elderling, provided she'd also lived beyond the first months. It is quite likely that Althea, Winthrow and others like them grew to understand dragons after spending more time near them, like when trading up the rain wild river.
The conclusion about incapability of having living children comes from several sources.
One part is the fact that even after the many years that passed from the liveship books through the first two rain wild books, Malta never had a child that survived. The rain wild traders, and to a smaller degree Bingtown traders, already have an unusually high stillbirth rate (or birth of non-human children). The only logical reason 'thul can think of, is that the people of the cursed shores spend too much time in the proximity of the stuff of dragons.
The children that are visibly non-human, are left to die, so though Elderling changes do happen, only the invisible changes are allowed to live beyond birth. Humans have no common tendency towards stillbirth, whereas Elderlings do have such tendency, or rather, have a tendency towards not having many children. The reason for that last tendency is that Elderlings are a long-lived species. The longer a lifespan, the less children there are, since it otherwise would cause overpopulation.
An open wound, as explained by Sylve/Mercor is more easily affected by the proximity to stuff of dragons. These beings believe that can be explained by the fact that it is actively growing. Elderling changes are also active growth, only not following human patterns. Thus the changes will see no reason not to utilize the already occurring growth in a wound.
A baby still in the womb, is also growing, much faster than a common wound at that. Thus logic would indicate that the changes will also occur there. Since a child in the womb does not have a fully functional body already, it is far too easy for the stuff of dragons to change something that should not be changed, preventing the child from being viable for life.
To explain the theory on why a child growing in a Half-Elderling/half-human would not be viable even if there is no dragon nearby, one might have to go down to the DNA level. It is obvious that dragons, humans and Elderlings have very different DNA structure. The two former are stable constructions, whereas the latter is a mix of the two former. 'thul guess that when the changes occur, the structure of the human DNA is meticulously dismantled, with new, draconic parts added in. Until the changes are complete, the structure is still unstable. If your body is unsure of its own DNA, how could you possibly pass on anything stable to your offspring?
Valarya Wrote:Interesting. I don't think of it this way at all. Rather the dragon is allowing you to serve him/her and helps keep humans humble and free of war whilst serving the dragons. The dragon most definitely does NOT reciprocate the feeling of camaraderie or brotherhood, or so I'd think. The Skill is just that, magic of the dragons - and I don't compare it to a Wit-bond at all. That's just me, though. I don't know enough about how the Dragons interacted w/ the Elderlings of old & the only thing I have to go on are the frescoes or tapestries littered through the series.. or that one statue in Frengong that Lady Carrock sees of the Dragon holding a basket w/ an Elderling Queen in it.. that description almost makes me think the dragon is doing her bidding.
What do you think about that statue and what it depicts of the relationship between dragon/elderling?
What you describe in the first part of that text, is how some dragons like to claim the facts are. Especially dragon queens. A dragon carrying a basket would be a way a dragon would be able to move its Elderling, without the hubris-triggered shame of having it on its back.
These beings would guess that statue portrays something that is still beyond their understanding. It is easy to guess possible meanings, but certain ones are still impossible.
anyways, on to earlier parts of your post...
Winthrow may not have had enough Elderling ancestry in him to understand dragons. At least not yet. He had spent quite a bit of time around serpents, but not around dragons. There is no indications that serpents could make Elderlings. They are, after all children. Thus there was nothing around him to let him change. If She Who Remembers had survived and managed to cocoon then hatch, it is quite possible that she might have chosen Winthrow as her Elderling, provided she'd also lived beyond the first months. It is quite likely that Althea, Winthrow and others like them grew to understand dragons after spending more time near them, like when trading up the rain wild river.
Note:
when 'thul write in all italics, it is the lord of the three realms within 'thul speaking. A fairly egoistical, but also somewhat simple-minded dragon. Do not take such posts at face value.
when 'thul write in all italics, it is the lord of the three realms within 'thul speaking. A fairly egoistical, but also somewhat simple-minded dragon. Do not take such posts at face value.
__..)/..____________..\/..____________..\(..__
¯¯””/(””¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯''(''/\'')''¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯””)\””¯¯
"Its for charity. Widows and orphans. We need more of them."
__..)/..____________..\/..____________..\(..__
¯¯””/(””¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯''(''/\'')''¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯””)\””¯¯
¯¯””/(””¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯''(''/\'')''¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯””)\””¯¯
"Its for charity. Widows and orphans. We need more of them."
__..)/..____________..\/..____________..\(..__
¯¯””/(””¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯''(''/\'')''¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯””)\””¯¯