Mythical Creatures/Folk (Spoilers ALL Books, including Words Like Coins)

[Nuytsia]

On a bit of a tangent, I know that lots of people tend to pronounce or interpret 'pecksies' as pixies. I don't, so haven't ever understood that at all, but I found it interesting to learn that Robin did actually have them in the forefront of her mind as her inspiration for pecksies.

Hehhe a real tangent, but I was thinking a lot of different accents would pronounce the word pixies as (to my ear) 'pecksies' - ok I might be wrong but I thought Irish, Scottish, New Zealand (ish), northern English, maybe others .......

[Lord Punctual]

I think pecksies are what emerge from an Other-spun cocoon.

[Farseer]

Nuytsia - actually, I didn't even THINK about people's accents coming into play...a bit narrow-minded of me to assume that everyone should pronounce a word like me simply by virtue of an Aussie accent !

Of course, you're right, and now that you bring it up, I can so hear how a Kiwi accent etccan make 'pixie' sound like pecksie and vice-versa!

Lord Punctual - I'm still trying to get my head around your pecksie theory but it's the best one I've heard thus far re where they originated and what their connection is!!

[Nuytsia]

Goodness I have to get my hands on this story involving pecksies - I HAVE to learn more about something that may have come from an Other-spun cocoon! the mind boggles!!!!

[Farseer]

Yes, you DO need to get your hands on 'Words Like Coins'!!

I'm still trying to sort out WHY and HOW an Others-spun cocoon would work...

Ok, what do we know? An Other is the result of a dragon's 'birthing' (not the correct term!) where the dragon has been over-exposed to Elderlings/humans. The purpose of a cocoon, in the normal cycle of events, is for the metamorphosis of a serpent to a dragon.

At the stage of emergence, a dragon tends to take on dragon memories via the wizardwood casing and usually leaves behind those memories gained as a serpent (as well as other examples, evidence of this can be seen from what happens with the dragons in the RWC books, when they are initially confused by the liveship Tarman, despite having been exposed for quite some time to Vivacia and Paragon when they were in serpent form in LST).

The question is...given that Others are technically more human than dragon, would they mate and then create a cocoon from which a pecksie could emerge OR would they give birth in a more human-like fashion eg to even more Others (no metamorphosis takes place, therefore no cocoon is required)??

The problem I have with pecksies being the result of an Others' mating is:

From where did the extra Others come from to replenish those who were destroyed by She Who Remembers when she was escaping? SWR tells of destroying all of the Others who came down to the beach to prevent her escape and yet, when Fitz and Dutiful went to Others Island, there were still quite a few Others on the island. Is this because they had reproduced in that time OR because not all Others had gone down to the beach to stop SWR, and so some had survived? Were these left over Others otherwise busy in their hide-out (the one Kennit refers to, that is in the forest) and therefore this is how they avoided being killed by SWR?

If there were more at the time of Fitz's visit because they had reproduced, then the Others must have given live birth to more Others, and not pecksies? Although, as some dragons can reproduce both dragons AND Others, possibly Others can give birth to yet more Others AND also pecksies. I know what I'm trying to say, even if you all don't ..just trying to make LP's theory work in my mind!!!

Hmm...there certainly seems to be enough memory stone on Others Island for the Others to create a pecksie cocoon, and the memory stone path which Kennit, Wintrow and Etta etc walked on through the forest is proof that memory stone does exist there in a ground form, such as it exists at the cocooning grounds in the Rain Wilds.

Given that a pecksie would not have to have an issue with staying on Others Island, there is no reason why, once emerged from a cocoon, it couldn't then use the Skill pillars off-shore of Others Island to travel to areas in the Six Duchies (or elsewhere in the RotE but the Six Duchies is where we definitely know they exist, thanks to 'Words Like Coins'). Still thinking... !

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Hmm...in the above it gets a bit confusing because an Other is really more a cross between a serpent and a human, not a dragon and a human, and serpents don't reproduce...dragons do! In this, possibly I am looking at it all from the wrong perspective !

[Nuytsia]

Not sure if I can add much to this, as I don't know anything about pecksies... (I checked our library but they don't have that anthology which has Words Like Coins.... boo!)

Re your last point, I had just assumed if pecksies emerged from cocoons spun by others then the process would be analogous to the dragons? So Others don't mate in the same way that Serpents don't. They just spin their own coccon and emerge as a pecksie (presumably other pecksies don't help the cocooning process as dragons do?)
Anyhoo, like I said I can't really speculate as I'm pretty well in the dark! So any or all of the other possibilities you mention could be true!

Elderlings reproductive processes are totally human ... aren't they? (ooooh aren't they?????) Maybe a pecksie emerges from an Elderling spun cocoon!!!!!!!!!!!! Heheheh.

[Farseer]

So Others don't mate in the same way that Serpents don't.

I really shouldn't post when I'm in a huge hurry, as I did/was this morning!

Yes, I am agreeing with this in that, by a process of metamorphosis (from emergence and not birth because a serpent or Other would be a juvenile and therefore sexually immature and incapable of mating?), an Other could possibly change into a pecksie, just as a serpent could change into a dragon.

juvenile/larva (serpent) - pupa (cocoon) - adult/imago (dragon)

juvenile/larva (Other) - pupa (cocoon) - adult/imago (pecksie)

I don't know if this terminology is entirely correct and definitely isn't in terms of aquatic creatures (maulkin ?!) but it illustrates how it could work?

Hmm...it still doesn't answer how there were plenty of Others still present on the island when Fitz and Dutiful turned up there, after SWR destroyed so many, unless those who came across F & D had been away from the beach when SWR escaped.

Not having any of the relevant books with me is making me a little crazy...still, you are managing quite well, Nuytsia, without having even READ one of them...bravo !!!

[maulkin]

Farseer - I am quite happy with your terminology. The metamorphosis of a dragon bears far more resemblance to that of a fly, butterfly or wasp than to that of an amphibian or dragonfly because there is a distinct pupal phase (the cocoon). However, the outward migration of serpents from breeding beaches to the open sea resembles that of sea turtles and their return migration upriver resembles that of salmon.

I had assumed that the Others remain trapped in a larval form and so are incapable of breeding. However, I suppose that it depends on how human-like they actually are! If SWR had killed all of the Others then there would have been no more when Fitz and Dutiful arrived. Even if Others are capable of breeding, where would the new ones have come from if all of the parents had been killed? There must at least have been children or eggs hidden away somewhere. Probably safer to assume that only a small proportion of the Others attempted to recapture SWR. One thing that puzzles me is why the dragons tolerate Others lurking at their breeding beach. The fact that they captured SWR means that there must have been Others around when dragons were still laying on Others Island. And who made the bars for SWR's cage? Can the Others work metal or did they have human help?

Thinking about salmon: male salmon can develop into two different forms. Some males migrate to the sea, feed for several years and return upriver as huge fish that compete aggressively for mates. Other male salmon remain within the breeding streams as tiny fish (known as "precocious parr"), wait for the females and large males to return from the sea, then sneak matings with the females. It is hard to imagine Others doing this because dragons mate on the wing and Others are wingless. However, if the others were able to spin cocoons and emerge in a winged form then it might be possible. Do Pecksies have wings?

Finally, we know that a heavily marked Rainwilder can be saved by associating with a dragon and transforming into an elderling. Could an Other be similarly transformed by associating with a dragon, or even with a human? Is this what pecksies are attempting to accomplish by associating with humans?

[Twisk]

"They seem to be solely the stuff of legend, ascribed to folk living in ancient times or distant places, or beings of mythical or near-mythical reputation: dragons, giants, the Elderlings, the Others, pecksies" or so says Fitz. At some other point he also includes unicorns and, I think, serpents in a similar list...

Of course, since Fitz penned these words, we have all come to know that the following are not mythical:

* Dragons - Lords of the Three Realms

* Serpents - dragons prior to their metamorphosis

* Others - considered to be Abominations, dragons over-exposed to humans, taken on human-like qualities

* Elderlings - humans over-exposed to dragons, taken on dragon-like qualities

* Pecksies - small creatures with Others-like qualities (fear of cats, webbed feet)

These five we have been introduced to so far are all connected however I can't help but wonder where pecksies would sit on the grand scale of things, alongside serpents, Others, dragons, and Elderlings!

We know that pecksies exist, at the very least, in the region of Tilth, in the north of the Six Duchies. This northern inland duchy also borders the region near the Mountain Kingdom (where the Skill River is located though, certainly, Tilth is some way away).

The silver, pecksie-dust smears they leave behind (on the windows, bucket, eggs etc) screams Skill magic to me, such as what had coated the hands and arms of Verity and Kettle. Also, to a lesser degree, Fool/Amber and even the fingerprints on Fitz's wrist (not only are these two examples of the silver of the Skill magic but both are also evidence that the Skill magic is transferred by touch). Even Jami in WLC knows that this silver stuff from the pecksies is a danger to humans...

While pecksies are small creatures, their eye colours and even the descriptions of their limbs/extremities (long fingers etc) puts me in mind of Elderlings, and even, to a certain extent, Fool.

It sure does make one wonder if Fitz's seemingly "pecksie-nibbled look" after his month caught in the Witness Stones may actually have a ring of truth about it! Hmm, where do pecksies fit?

And, what of those "mythical" creatures/folk that remain unknown in Fitz's list? Are we yet to see giants and unicorns?

Hi,
A really great point! I haven't read the short stories yet but going on what is mentioned before I did wonder if the 'Pecksies' were in fact Elderlings!

[Farseer]

Probably safer to assume that only a small proportion of the Others attempted to recapture SWR.

Agreed!

One thing that puzzles me is why the dragons tolerate Others lurking at their breeding beach. The fact that they captured SWR means that there must have been Others around when dragons were still laying on Others Island. And who made the bars for SWR's cage? Can the Others work metal or did they have human help?

I made a brief comment re iron in the other thread but you're right...possibly the Others serve some purpose to the dragons (keep an eye on the hatching serpents perhaps?) and hence are tolerated by them despite their 'Abomination' status? Possibly they could have Skill-wrought the iron/metal?

However, if the others were able to spin cocoons and emerge in a winged form then it might be possible. Do Pecksies have wings?

No, there is no mention of wings with regards to anything I've read about pecksies.

Finally, we know that a heavily marked Rainwilder can be saved by associating with a dragon and transforming into an elderling. Could an Other be similarly transformed by associating with a dragon, or even with a human? Is this what pecksies are attempting to accomplish by associating with humans?

I see these as being reasonable assumptions. As an extension, possibly wishing to associate with humans is why the Others attempt to lure them from the path on their return journey to the western shoreline where ships are usually anchored?

As far as I can determine, the most telling similarities between a pecksie and an Other is a distinct dislike of cats and webbed feet. Of what use are webbed feet to a seemingly land-dwelling creature, such as the pecksie, unless they have simply been inherited? In things such as this, I am currently compiling the various links (similarities and differences etc) between each of the beings. Hopefully it will help!