Mythical Creatures/Folk (Spoilers ALL Books, including Words Like Coins)

['thul]

As is prevalent in many fantasy magic systems, leaving a skill untrained might be more dangerous than actually training it... Just imagine what would happen if someone had the skill to control weather, but never learned to control it... what could happen to the global ecosystem if such person got angry?

here's an example quote from the malloreon:

"Belgarion," Velvet chided him gently, "now really, that's no way to behave. Kal Zakath has been a very courteous host. I'm sure that now that he understands the situation, he'll be more than happy to cooperate, won't you, your Imperial Majesty?" She smiled winsomely at the Emperor. "We wouldn't want the Rivan King to get really angry, now would we? There are so many breakable things about — windows, walls, houses, the city of Rak Hagga — that sort of thing."

[Nuytsia]

Yes that's true, in other fantasy worlds it seems that is often the case.
In RoTE it doesn't seem to pose such a problem ...... it doesn't seem as if having untrained Wit or Skill can harm others (well I can't think of an example where it did?) but I suppose there are the personal ramifications of eg bonding with an animal too early.

['thul]

These beings seem to recall incidents such as one in the encampment of the old blood, with one that bonded too tightly... and fitz lack of training caused him to make many mistakes...

[Farseer]

More than a few times I have raised the issue about Fool's ability to slip in and out of a room unnoticed (even a supposedly locked one at times), not to mention an ability to bypass Fitz' Wit-sense. I have also often mentioned that Pecksies and Fool share some similarities, and it seems that this ability to come and go is one of them, going on the example in this paragraph (at least I thought of Fool the very first time I read it!!):

The door to the room was still shut. "How did you get in here?" Mirrifen's voice shook slightly.

"By a way no rat could come..."

One of the many examples of Fool doing this would be in FE when he, Fitz and Dutiful are making their way back to Buckkeep. Fitz latched the inn room door and went to sleep, only to find Fool there in bed the next morning (I loved that Fitz was surprised to see that Fool had not stayed with Laurel and Fool was just as surprised/pleased to see that Fitz had not stayed with Starling!! ).

'I didn't expect to see you in your bed this morning,' I greeted him, and then, 'How did you get in? I latched that door last night.'

'Did you? Interesting. But you can scarcely be more surprised to see me in my own bed than I am to see you in yours.'

So, is this all magical or is it simply that Pecksies and Fool share some latent and stealthy 'break and enter' talents?

[Farseer]

Hmm, would it be a stretch then to assume that there is a possibility that Eda/El/Sa does exist but as a dragon-like divine being, and not the usual human-like god we may be expecting (hence the addition of "in a tangle")?

Ah, I have just had a quick re-read of this post and feel a little silly at present! While we don't know if El/Eda/Sa is actualy a "dragon-like being", we DO know that there is a connection with Sa and a dragon-like being, as we learnt from Wintrow's visit to Cress in LST. Odava, the serpent god (which could be considered dragon-like as dragon begin as serpents?) is said to be one of the facets of Sa, along with the male and female aspects (giving Sa at least three aspects that we know of).

While followers of Sa accept this 'serpent' aspect of Sa, those who exclusively follow Odava do not believe that the Odava-deity is a facet of Sa but is a singular being in his/her/its own right. In a way, it could be said that they give Odava sole ascendancy over the other aspects, rather than accepting it as being a part of a whole (in much the same way that Paragon once held ascendancy until he moved to a place of union with his Greater and Lesser dragons or how Vivacia and then Bolt held ascendancy until they merged). I have spoken a lot more re ascendancy in the RotE vs Gernia thread...

Back to Odava...! Odava was a manifestation of Sa so it would stand to reason then that Sa has serpent or dragon-like traits, as well as others?

Could it also be (whatever form Eda/El/Sa takes) that Fitz and Dutiful actually have "touched" Eda/El/Sa during their experience on Others Island? Dutiful's experience of that great presence was that of a fatherly being whereas Fitz experienced a more feminine manifestation. Later, Fitz was of the opinion that this was because they were each drawn to that gender which had been mostly lacking in their lives (Fitz mourned the loss of his mother whilst Dutiful longed for his father). Is it possible that this is a correct assumption on Fitz's part BUT, to take it further, what they actually experienced was the two facets of Sa within the Skill River? That the Skill River is of Sa (especially given the previous discussions we've had concerning the connection between the Skill, priests, Elderlings, artworks etc?).

Wintrow also tells us that Sa is said to be 'mother to all' and 'father to all'.

More to add on Sa but it doesn't belong here...!

[Farseer]

I have been meaning to put this here for a while now...

Just an external, interesting side-point regarding El as 'the father of all'...

[Farseer]

Adding a little bling to our discussion here and elsewhere regarding the possibility of Sa having a dragon-ish link, here comes an observation that may mean something or may mean nothing...

Odava is said to not only be one of the facets of Sa but:

another facet of Sa's jewel face.

Sa's jewel face. A jewel face. Not sure about you but this places an Elderling at the forefront of my thinking! Scaling could be considered as appearing jewel-like?

I am particularly thinking of the woman who I spoke of as being featured in Homecoming (apologies for kind of cross-posting here but I needed to bring it over here to discuss the 'jewel' element!). Buried within the remains of Trehaug, the woman is carved in a reclining position in a basket that is held by a dragon (most likely a simulacra/memory stone carving that is similar to those which appear within the Stone Garden). It says of the woman:

And within the basket, reclining serenely, was a woman of preternatural authority. She was not beautiful; the power expressed in her made beauty irrelevant. Nor was she young and desirable....Jewels had been set above her brow lines and along the top of her cheeks to mimic the scaling of the dragon...

More to add on all of this but I will leave it there for the moment.

So, again, could the jewel face of Sa refer to scaling or does jewel here simply mean that Sa is made up of a variety of facets, like a jewel has facets, OR could it be a bit of both?

['thul]

It could be scaling, and it could be facets of a power that is hard to define. Or it could be that the definition once was scales, but turned into facets.

[Farseer]

Could it also be (whatever form Eda/El/Sa takes) that Fitz and Dutiful actually have "touched" Eda/El/Sa during their experience on Others Island?

That is a fascinating thought! One thing though, IIRC one of the things s/he says to Fitz is; "the others would not even have noticed they'd attracked you". Something like that, anyway, I don't have the book with me at the moment.

So that'd indicate that s/he's part of a group or race, not a single entity. But then it wouldn't be the first time that seemingly more powerful beings were regarded as gods by humans, and as the contact got lost maybe it developed into the belief of two dual-gender entities.

I've thought this previously, and probably said it somewhere (maybe even in this thread!), but what of the Elders of the Skill River? At the end of TM, Fitz talks of Verity being in there somewhere etc. In this instance 'others' could simply be describing the entire group of Elders, which is most likely just another name for the Elderlings(??). Fitz also mentioned something about Elderlings being thought of as near-gods by humans (also toward the end of TM in a conversation with Fool, I think). I will come back and reference these but am dropping it all here before I forget again!

On a slight tangent...the word 'attract' in the quote above intrigues me. Attract how? Attract why? Why would the others not have noticed?

[mcfee]

Hmm, would it be a stretch then to assume that there is a possibility that Eda/El/Sa does exist but as a dragon-like divine being, and not the usual human-like god we may be expecting (hence the addition of "in a tangle")?

This makes a lot of sense to me!! Fool often talks about how when Dragons existed they basically had the run of the place, they were not bound by human boundaries or really cared about human laws/traditions (high lighted again when the malformed dragons want to eat the dead and don't understand the human's frustration/ tradition of the river burial) And Dragons often refer to themselves as rulers of the sky/sea etc so in the same way people believe humans were made in God.s image on this earth, it could be dragons were made in their God's image and as a result are the dominant beings of that world - in the same way humans are dominant on earth, we take no notice to other animals boundaries/social dynamics/ habits, unless a individual's curiousity finds it interesting of course! this seemed to be the same with the Dragons, some occasionally took a particular interest in a human and made them Elderlings. In fact in the second Rain Wild book I'm sure it talks about Elderlings almost being like works of art. Almost giving the impression of showing off what dragon qualities they could give to 'their' human to make them beautiful/art.

waow what a rant - ha anyway my (very long winded) point was, that the fact Dragons could be in the image of their God. I may have got a few of the exact details wrong or paraphrased massively but I hope someone understands how I got that lol what an imagination this woman has - talk about attention to detail!!!

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On a slight tangent...the word 'attract' in the quote above intrigues me. Attract how? Attract why? Why would the others not have noticed?
[/quote]

I got the impression while reading that part that the attraction wasn't intentional. If Skill users are drawn/attracted to the Skill then it would seem that these beings who either create the skill current or wear it or something, would attract anyone using the Skill unintentionally. As for the fact of 'the others not noticing' I took that to mean that these being where so powerful/majestic/huge that something as small as a human would hardly be noticed, almost like finding a money spider in your hair - unless just by coincidence u happen to see it, you wouldn't know it was their. Also the way the being talks to Fitz during these encounters is affectionate and almost playful, like the way a mother tuts and smiles at a toddlers curiosity, although that could be specific to Fitz as the beings seem to represent what each person yearns for...