The Demise of the Elderlings (Spoilers for all books, especially RWC)

[Nuytsia]

Very quick post as I just happened to find something in Fool's Fate - through chance I opened to the very section!
I think we are right to be going down the track that Aslevjal was cold before Prillkop, and it seems that Prillkop didn't change the whole island to 'cold' he just stopped the Elderling magic that was heating their indoor areas.

p 738 of my paperback edition:
'Once the stone hallways had been warmed Elderlings had come and gone from this place enjoying the wonders of the ice and snow that never reached their warmer lands."......"He (Prillkop) had somehow unharnessed the magic that gave warmth to the stone."

Geees if only Fitz had just asked Prillkop what killed off the Elderlings and dragons! Incurious sod!
Then again, if we re-read it we might find some more clues that completely escaped us before. I was pretty well just crying my eyes out at this point and didn't give a damn about the stupid Elderlings!

[Nuytsia]

Well I only skim re-read these posts, so hope I'm not repeating anything we've discussed earlier!
I always suspected maybe the demise of elderlings and dragons wouldn't have been solely due to natural disaster and climate change... surely they could have worked together to overcome these events?
Anyhoo, maybe or maybe not, BUT when I re-read the Farseer trilogy I really wondered about the stained glass window Fitz sees in Kelsingra:

"The image presented was one of a woman and a dragon. They did not appear to be at odds, but instead stood as if speaking to one another. The woman in this window had black hair and black eyes and wore a band of bright red on her brow. She carried something in her left hand, but whether it was weapon or wand of office I could not tell. The immense dragon wore a jeweled collar, but nothing else in its stance or demeanor suggested domestication. I stared at the window, light gleaming through its dusty colors, for several long minutes before I could go on. I felt it had some significance I could not quite grasp"

Hmmm I am not sure what the 'significance' is .....?
But, I do wonder about the dragon's collar and the 'wand'(?) in the woman's hand. (control rod I say!)
Actually, another weird thing is that there is nothing to indicate she is an elderling, she sounds like a standard human?
Fitz seems to indicate nothing points to the human controlling the dragon, but that is just his impression, and he could be mistaken.

Then there's the imprisonment of She Who Remembers...... WAS it the Others? Or maybe humans/elderlings? If so, why?

Some sort of sabotage of the serpents/dragons? (if so, why not just kill SWR?)
Maybe some sort of blackmail to try and make the dragons come back and lay their eggs on Others Island (if they had decided to cut ties with, at least one faction of, humans/elderlings by laying their eggs elsewhere??).
There certainly seemed to be argument among the humans Fitz saw pointing at the map table in Kelsingra, so it's pretty plausible that there were opposing factions.

Maybe the Others came about as the humans on 'Others Island' kept some dragons prisoner and they changed into Others!

[Farseer]

when I re-read the Farseer trilogy I really wondered about the stained glass window Fitz sees in Kelsingra:

"The image presented was one of a woman and a dragon. They did not appear to be at odds, but instead stood as if speaking to one another. The woman in this window had black hair and black eyes and wore a band of bright red on her brow. She carried something in her left hand, but whether it was weapon or wand of office I could not tell. The immense dragon wore a jeweled collar, but nothing else in its stance or demeanor suggested domestication. I stared at the window, light gleaming through its dusty colors, for several long minutes before I could go on. I felt it had some significance I could not quite grasp"

Hmmm I am not sure what the 'significance' is .....?
But, I do wonder about the dragon's collar and the 'wand'(?) in the woman's hand. (control rod I say!)
Actually, another weird thing is that there is nothing to indicate she is an elderling, she sounds like a standard human?

Yes, this has long been one of my favourite parts of AQ whole "I felt it had some significance I could not quite grasp" tells me it's hugely significant...we are talking about blind Fitz after all!!!

Notice the black hair and eyes? She is on my list and I couldn't help but think of Nettle when I first re-read this passage in AQ after finishing TM.

That she is human and not depicted as the usual 'Elderling' is one of the reasons why I think the black hair and eyes of the Farseers is so significant, and wonder if they were not possibly the ruling seat of Kelsingra, way back in ancient days, and not just the Elderlings who had undergone changes? Still, the bright band upon her brow sounds very much like a scarlet crest, such as the Queen's crest that Malta has.

At the very least, I think that there may be a link to this woman and another but I have to check my facts first!

Fitz noted the Elders of the Skill River at some stage (FF, I think) and pointed out that Verity was there somewhere...Elders and Edlerlings are too close in word form for me...I think they are possibly one and the same though some may undergo dragonish changes, others may not? Still thinking on all of that but, yes, a significant hint that her Hobbness has given us...it's just up to us to answer the riddle/s!

As an aside, when Fitz noted all of the people milling around in the Kelsingra Map Tower, he didn't speak of scales etc. From memory, he merely noted their elongated human forms and varying eye colours. Possibly it is with Elderlings as it is with humans, Pecksies etc. Not all Elderlings look the same and have exactly the same features?

I really want to know what the thing is in her left hand!!!!

So much more to add but I have to run!

EDIT: I just had to come back after I realised I'd forgotten to mention "the future". The depiction of the woman and dragon is found within a stained-glass window artform, obviously of Elderling make. This relationship between the woman and dragon could link to the future as opposed to the past, if we liken it to Wintrow's stained-glass window which depicted a serpent and dragon. At the time he didn't know why he always included them in each of his attempts, attempts made while in a Skill trance I might add, but this link with serpents and dragons later proved to be a part of his fate. Possibly it will prove true of this window. It is not farfetched given the example of Wintrow and the Elderlings' love of predictions for the future. Even objects (often described as being incredible works of art) found along the Treasure Beach pointed to a future event.

Sorry 'thul beings...will have to read your post below at a later time!

['thul]

These beings have always suspected that there were two reasons for the Elderlings he saw in visions not having scales...

1: RH had not decided to make elderlings scaled yet...
2: Fitz had no idea elderlings had scales. From 'thuls understanding, all Elderlings are to at least some degree scaled, be it with natural colors or dragonish colors. When someone has not even the concept that someone might have scaled skin, it could be easy to make the mistake of not seeing that. Especially if the visions are not perfectly clear, if they are slightly blurred in details...

It is unlikely that the farseers are descended from the ruling class of Kelsingra. At least in any direct line. Remember, king Taker came from the out islands, and the first several generations took their queens from there too.
The black hair and eyes are more likely to come from Elderlings that served Icefyre. It might be that one aspect of the farseer elder blood comes from that queen, but it is hard, if not impossible to prove, unless RH comes with a statement...

Sorry Nuytsia, but these beings feel that he idea of any Dragon submitting to any form of control like you described is fairly laughable. Dragonkind are extremely arrogant and possess very strong magic. Even full Elderlings are weak in comparison... There is no precedent for dragons controlled/ruled by Elderlings. No trace of such has ever been mentioned in the books, and plenty of evidence to the contrary has been presented...

Do not forget, dragons control how Elderlings evolve, and it is quite probable that they could also change an Elderling even after it is "finished". How hard would it then be to "accidentally" make something grow in the wrong way, like a one-ended primary artery?

Anyone strong-minded placed into slavery unwillingly will use any means to fight their oppressor(s), and a dragon failing against an Elderling is unlikely...


Most likely that object is just a simple scepter. Nothing else. Most enchanted objects in RotE are based on memory stone or cocoonwood. At least the stronger magical things... Minor things like perfume gems use gems...