Humans and Dragons *contains spoilers for Liveship and Tawny Man books*

[maulkin]

In Fool's Fate, the Fool makes his case for preserving the dragon species by arguing that humans require dragons to remind them that their dominance of nature is an illusion.

Adult dragons are virtually indestructible, as proved by the Pale Woman's inability to kill Icefyre, even when the dragon is immobilised in ice. Dragons are as intelligent, and as arrogant, as humans but utterly wild and untameable. Dragons are also much longer-lived than humans. Together with their ability to pass on memories between generations, this gives dragons a long-term view of the World that humans lack. However, although dragons have enormous wisdom, they remain creatures of tradition and instinct. When a geological cataclysm destroys the Elderling civilisation and kills most of the adult dragons, the few survivors are unable to adapt and fall into despair.

In contrast, humans are short-lived and shortsighted but incredibly adaptable, tinkering with their environment to make the hostile habitable. Although they are weak individually, when considered collectively humans are powerful and dangerous. The ignorant tinkering of the Rainwild Traders destroys most of the surviving dragon cocoons and then Dutiful's foolish quest comes near to killing the last adult male dragon. However, it is also human inventiveness that eventually frees the last surviving dragons and saves the species.

The Elderling civilisation, a symbiosis between human (or humanoid) and dragon is presented as an ideal in which human ingenuity is placed at the service of nature. Even in this case, there are hints of tension between human and dragon but perhaps such tension is necessary, productive even.

Would our world benefit from dragons?

[Mervi]

Welcome, maulkin.
I think you raise some interesting and important questions. I often get frustrated with how our world works and think that yes, dragons or other "superbeasts" should step in and give us a lesson or two. And by "our" world, I really do mean our modern world, which is much worse in the scale of humanity's selfishness than that of Fitz and the Fool (and if according to the Fool *they* need dragons, how could we not?)
Anyway, I think Robin's next book is likely to deal with some of these issues between humans and dragons as it takes place in the Rain Wilds after the events of Fool's Fate. Only 6 months to go!

[Nighteyes]

We could definitely benefit from having a greater race put humans in their place. It has always frustrated me how much damage has been done to the balance of the world by people. Perhaps the dragons' wisdom and humans' inventiveness combined could 'fix' the world?

[maulkin]

Recently, I traveled to Siberia and visited an area of old-growth forest where bears were plentiful and tigers still roamed. Seeing the fresh tracks of these huge predators on the ground ahead of me made me very aware that I was sharing my environment with creatures that could eat me. Given that I did not carry a gun, there would not have been much that I could have done to stop them. It completely changed my attitude to the forest, turning it into a place of danger that demanded care and respect.

While nature still presents dangers such as diseases, hurricanes and earthquakes, as well as more insidious threats such as climate change, none of these has a body that we can picture or a mind with which we can engage. To me, dragons personify (or perhaps draconify) the stark power and hazardous beauty of nature. Perhaps that is why they fascinate us, despite their non-existence.

[Farseer]

To me, dragons personify (or perhaps draconify) the stark power and hazardous beauty of nature. Perhaps that is why they fascinate us, despite their non-existence.

:*Gasp!* They don't exist? Oh ye of little faith!

[maulkin]

To me, dragons personify (or perhaps draconify) the stark power and hazardous beauty of nature. Perhaps that is why they fascinate us, despite their non-existence.

:*Gasp!* They don't exist? Oh ye of little faith!

Well, if they exist anywhere then I guess that it will be Australia. You seem to have an overabundance of dangerous reptiles!

[redchild]

Dragons exist inside each of us

[Farseer]

[/quote]
Well, if they exist anywhere then I guess that it will be Australia. You seem to have an overabundance of dangerous reptiles!
[/quote]

I am thrilled to report that we do, in fact, have bearded dragons aplenty !

       

[Chrischa]

I'm bumping this older topic with something I thought worth mentioning.
I'm reading this book atm called "An Unnatural Order"by Jim Mason. Very good book, I highly recommend it, it investigated the question why humans seem intent on destroying the natural world around us.

One of the points raised in the book is how much the human mind depends on animals, and one of the points raised in that context is the myths surrounding mythical creatures.

Mason claims that humans invented animals such as dragons, werewolves etc. to represent the power of nature. When people lived in a natural world, the nature around them was so overwhelming and intimidating that they needed to give expression to that fear, so they created these creatures which are more dangerous and mystical then any existing animal. They embody the intimidation and fear humans feel towards nature.

He also says that in our modern age, we have done the same when we invented these myths about space aliens. We live nowadays surrounded by technology which most of us can't begin to understand, and which is capable of destroying us and everything around us. Just like nature could be overwhelming to the primal man, so this technology stirs a fear in us so we have invented mythical beings who always have technology which is more advanced then our own, and who can judge and destroy us with it.

Fascinating, isn't it?! That makes so much sense! I have always wondered why cultures the world over have invented dragons, even without any contact between them whatsoever.

[Nuytsia]

There's another book for my 'to-read' list!

In relation to the human invention of dragons, werewolves etc, it occurs to me that those mythical creatures also usually have some measure of intelligence not possessed by real world wild animals.
Maybe people were overwhelmed by the sheer randomness of the fact that they could be violently killed in an instant by a wild animal simply to become lunch?
Though I'm not entirely sure why it would be better to be killed by a creature that knew what it was doing!

Maybe another part of it was the need to make sense of why other humans sometimes commit violent acts. (intelligence of a human combined with instincts of a wild animal = werewolf?)