Maps (major spoilers all RotE books/short stories up to end DH)

[Farseer]

We've talked of maps in various threads here and there before but I thought it was time to give them a thread of their own (why not add another thread to the ever-expanding tapestry?! ).

The main reason for doing this now is that Phil, from over in the Newsgroup, has created a Realm of the Elderlings map using both the existing maps from the books and also his interpretations from pouring over the texts themselves. I asked Phil's permission and he has allowed me to share his map with you all here to prompt some discussion (eg maybe we have interpreted the text differently, what do we like about the map/any RotE map, or what don't we like about this or other maps etc). Phil, too, will soon head over and join us in our conversation which will be fantastic.

In the meantime, this is the majority of what I had to say to Phil over there, some of which I took directly from posts I'd made here so apologies for any double-up:

Nice one Phil! I'm going to undertake a study of this at a later time, to compare where you've placed things with how I have interpreted the text, and am thoroughly looking forward to it! I love maps!!

Of course, there is the fact that I am hoping there's something not accurate about your depiction of the Out Islands. I have a bit of a theory (or is that a hope?) about their positioning. I also thought (there I go hoping again!) that this was why the Out Islands had not yet appeared on our maps.

I know that in Dragon Haven Alise was talking about a dream she'd had. In the dream she felt that she was a dragon or some such as she appeared to be above the city (Kelsingra?) seeing it as if from a bird's-eye view. Looking down at the city, it had looked to her as though it had been planned to be seen from above, like a piece of artwork.

When I first read this, I couldn't help but think immediately of the Out Islands and my little, long-time theory that the positioning of the islands could be somehow significant eg that they create some kind of pattern or shape when seen from above. This observation from Alise made me even more hopeful that I may be right.

I'm not sure why I think/thought that the positioning of the Out Islands may be something significant but they are "The God Runes" after all, so, ah, I don't know , I guess I'm thinking that Sa/El/Eda/Odava/Chranzuli (?) etc put them in some kind of special order to create some stupendous and important pattern that can only be seen from a dragon's/their perspective...above.

It was for this reason that I thought (hoped) the Out Islands had never appeared on a map in the books eg it is not for us yet to know what the gods had done until the characters themselves can view them from above OR knowing such a thing and being able to see the layout for ourselves may prove a spoiler for future works etc.

I also thought it worthy to note that Aslevjal was depicted as the most likely centre of the entire 'world', at least that is how it seems to appear on the map within the Aslevjal map tower? This makes me wonder if there is some true connection to it and "the gods"...or was it like that as those in Aslevjal simply considered themselves the centre of the world (as we humans once believed we were the centre of the solar system?)...or was it merely written in the text as such to hint at the (presently unknown to the reader) lands to the north and to the very east of the map?

Tangent coming! I've not thought of it until right this second but the Out Islands HAVE been seen from above in modern RotE times...during the Cleansing of Buck and the end of the Red Ships War etc, and also when Fool flew there on GoaD's back. Of course, there were only three beings other than "the gods" and the simulacra who'd have been in a position to possibly view and remember the positioning...Fool, Tintaglia and Icefyre. Hmm...!

So, Phil, if your depiction is fairly accurate, it would blow my theory about the positioning of the Out Islands out of the water!

I'll add other quotes from other threads at a later point, and feel free to add links to other RotE maps you may come across etc as well.

Here's the link to the map as the image was far too large to place here as a picture. Sorry. If you know how to put it here somehow, please do so!

Though you'll find that the map is in German (which I can't read for the most part), it is still rather easy to understand, especially if you, like me, have studied the other maps or read the books with a map in mind.

[Valarya]

Oooh, I love maps too!!!

I agree with you, Farseer, that this wouldn't necessarily be a map of the whole world because, as the Aslevjal Map Tower denotes, it would be the "center" (of course each map of the world would look different if each city holding a map tower placed that city as the center). I've even toyed with the idea that Aslevjal might be a "pole" - like the North or South pole of the world. But, ah.. who knows.

A couple of things:

1. The Fool described the place where he came from. It's on the map in the tower of Aslevjal, in fact. Far far south, past the Pirate Isles, past the Spice Isles, but also way way way more to the right of the map. I think of it as if the Six Duchies were Canada, and the Jamallia area were the USA... where Fool comes from would be positioned like Africa, in-relation-to. If you get what I'm saying.

2. I haven't perused the entire map, yet.. but the thing that stood out to me the most is that his mountains/rivers around Kelsingra are a bit off. In fact, if you look at the true map from the books, those rivers are a bit different than what he has laid out here. But I like this version... gives more room for details.

The only thing that's bothering me is that Kelsingra is up that left fork of the river. It makes the most sense based on the placement of the rivers on the traditional map, but for some reason I'm remembering the part in the book where Tarman squats down at the fork.. and when all the other dragons start taking off on the left fork, they eventually "turn around" and take the right fork instead.

Maybe that's a fork not shown on this map? Maybe my memory sucks?

[Brashen]

So here I am. It's me Phil The name Phil was free, but to some reasons blocked for any spamming reason

At first I add my answer to your post in the Newsgroup:

Net, it's great what you wrote. Well, in fact I hade similar thoughts about Aslevjal and the Outer Islands, before. My first attempt to draw them was something that looked more like runes, but it didn't look realistic in any way... And about the Portalstone on Aslevjal and the map room one floor deeper, I thought a lot while reading. The Problem is that In other parts of the tawny man trilogy it seems most likely that Aslevjal lies very far in the north, probably the island most north. There is no passage where it is said that it lies north of the other islands, but it is eg said that on Aslevjal it's always winter and the glacier is always there. Not so on other Islands... That's why I placed it so far in the north. When I came to the map room I first didn't know what to do, but Fitz than says that in the map of the elderlings were some mistakes. So I for myself said that the fact that Aslevjal lies in the middle is only something like "we are the center of the world" :-)

And here is right away the question I posted:

Net, it seems, you read the books while thinking of a map, too. There is a somehow similar Problem with Buckkeep... On every map and as it would be logic in comparison to the travel of Fitz, the Fool and Laurel in the first book of the tawny man trilogy, Buckkeep is placed south of the Buck River. But if I remember right Fitz crosses this river only once on his journey to Fierant (don't know the English name: city where Regal reigns). Has anyone recognized the same?

Valarya, I agree with your first point about the Fools homeland, although I never thought of a comparison between USA and Afrika . This and the reason that it's not written much about this region is why I didn't include it in my map.

And let me explain the reason why I changed the Rain Wild River. In fact I didn't change the river but the Chalced State. If you check an "official" (I asked Robin Hobb and she said these are not really official maps. Here is her Answer: "There is really no ‘official’ map. As I mentioned, I think, I sent my publisher my sketch, a very rough sketch indeed. And two different people drew the maps, one for the UK edition and one for the US edition. So each is slightly different, as each one interpreted my rough draft very differently.") map, Chalced is very small. I thought that such a small country would barely be able to fight both, Shoaks (which is on "official" maps bigger than Chalced), the Mountain Kingdom and Bingtown. So I made it bigger and moved the Rain Wild River for this sake. The mountains in the north of the left fork indeed, is a good point. I don't know why I left them away. Maybe because I always had the impression Fitz and his fellowship moved westwards when going down the magic road to the Crossing and later the Dragon Graveyard. What do you guys think? Should there be mountains in the north or did you feel two, they were going westwards?
Unfortunately I did not find the time, yet, to read the new Robin Hobb trilogy, Rain Wild Chronicles . So I think my map will change in some ways as soon as I start reading
(Feel free to post Spoilers. I don't mind. With Robin Hobb I find fantastic the way the characters interact and not only the story itself )

But please feel free to ask why I made this and that like I made it I'd love to share about it!

---

Ah, and I think this is a better link for my map (you are right. It's too big to post it full size):

Phils map

And a small preview:
[Image: robin_hobb_map_ger_small.jpg]

['thul]

These beings noted the same about the RW river... It looks wrong with kelsingra being up a lone branch like that one... But instead of changing things drastically, these beings would suggest simply adding a branch in westerly direction somewhat before kelsingra.

By the way, nice map. These beings also enjoy maps.

Wasn't jamaillia on a eastern smaller continent?

[Brashen]

Ok, I definitely have to find time to read the RWC asap.

Well with Jamaillia, as one can see in most of the maps, for example the one from Crooty, one can see Jamaillia placed in the south on the same continent. It must be like this, cause when the traders from Bingtown travel to Jamaillia, they either need to cross the pirates islands (along the cursed shores) or have to go through the open see which would last longer.

A region in the east is either the Spice Islands (where Ephron used to travel to), but it's no continent, or it's the Fool's homeland, which might be a continent

['thul]

Well, these beings went purely from memory on locating jamaillia... memory from a few years ago...

About the RWC... Yes, you do definitely need to find time to read them.

on maps... What do you think of these beings' map sketch here?
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh260...G_2158.jpg
It is not up to date or finished, but still, you look like you like maps, and so on...

[Brashen]

Uh, nice one! Yes, I definitely like maps

I especially like your mountains. When I find time I'll read RWC, after this finish the map and then put a better design on it, maybe starting with the mountains Yours are a good example

Nevertheless there are four things I would change on your map:

1. the coastline shouldn't be that chiseled. Few chiseles combined with flat parts look more realistic
   
2. I would leave the very very mall branches of your rivers away. It looks a bit like blood vessels
   
3. the river up in the northwest has an X-crossing. That seems quite strange (but possible), because rivers usually combine rivers but rarely spread up into several rivers, except in river deltas.
   
4. the river in the middle flows from mountain to mountain and stops there. You should finish him into a lake or better ocean
   

I hope I was not like this
I hope I helped

[Farseer]

Welcome, welcome, welcome Brashen (aka Phil) !!! It's fantastic to have you here on thePlenty with us, and thanks once again for sharing your map and knowledge of the realm with your fellow Hobb fans! I am really looking forward to lots of great discussions here.

I have been away and life in the next week is going to be up in the high revs (super busy!) so I won't be able to come on here a lot but, after that, look out...

['thul]

1. true, not fully satisfied with that coastline. It was an experiment in fractalizing it. Will probably change it somewhat later.
2. probably true. blood vessels might fit, as could branches on a bush. some of those may indeed be conflicting.
3. The NW river isnt fully done, and that system has a few errors to it, as elevation is uncertain of different sections. Its true that rivers don't split all that often, especially not into semi-equal branches outside a delta.
4. The idea here is that it goes underground.

You were indeed helpful. it is better with thought-out critique than with blind acceptance.

Mountains like the ones these beings have are fairly easy to make. Each mountain is a thick line to shape its profile, then thinner lines for its surface. generally requires a fairly sharp pencil.

[Valarya]

Ahhhh, finally!! Someone else who doesn't mind spoilers because even if you know the destination.. it's still all about the journey.


Welcome, Phil (Brashen)!! So very glad to have you with us and thanks for the insight on your map.

I like the idea of Chalced being a bigger state because, you're right, they are in constant issue with Bingtown & the Six Duchies. Before reading the RWC I would have assumed their state to be much larger, but seeing how brutal of a people they are in the RWC, well... I think it's just in their nature to fight every one around them. STILL, I like what you've done.

The 'thul beings' idea of placing another river leading westward somewhere before Kelsingra is a great idea. It would fit more in line with what we see in the RWC.

Great job, altogether!!!!