Random lightbulbs that went off over my head while re-reading Liveships (spoilers!)

[Nuytsia]

I just started re-reading Liveships (fun!) and after like 2 pages found something interesting I hadn't noticed the first time, and after 10 pages found about half a dozen interesting snippets, so thought I'd start this thread!

This first one is more in the vein of 'oh I didn't remember that!' than a real lightbulb moment, but it says that Maulkin's false eyes actually denote the fact that he had 'knowledge of both lives'.
So, as we know, serpents lose their dragon memories and vice versa during the transformation, but there are apparently certain individuals like Maulkin that retain some memories.

I guess it makes sense that these individuals become tangle leaders.

[Lady Laura]

That's really interesting! I bet re-reading Hobb's books reveals lots of interesting bits of info that add to the overall enjoyment and understanding of her world

[Nuytsia]

Hmm I found this interesting.......
A few pages into Chapter 1, Gankis and Kennit are talking about the legends of the Others and talking about Bards visiting the Others 'in ancient times' and gaining magical voices...
They mention the story of "Kaven Ravenlock who visited the Others for half a hundred years and returned as if but a day had passed for him, but with hair the colour of gold and eyes like red coals and true songs that told of the future in twisted rhymes"

Is is just me or does this remind you of the White Prophets? Probably just a coincidence.......

Also, this is just one of those cool moments where something that is significant later on is mentioned and you have no idea what it is! (until you do a re-read)..........

On the same page as the Bard tales, Kennit spies a 'toothy tower of shale' (already mentioned as black) which 'stood independent of the island'...

I'm assuming this is the Skill Pillar that features in the TM trilogy.... how cool to find it already mentioned!

['thul]

Well that first one remind 'thul more of something elderlingy.

[Farseer]

Hmm I found this interesting.......
A few pages into Chapter 1, Gankis and Kennit are talking about the legends of the Others and talking about Bards visiting the Others 'in ancient times' and gaining magical voices...
They mention the story of "Kaven Ravenlock who visited the Others for half a hundred years and returned as if but a day had passed for him, but with hair the colour of gold and eyes like red coals and true songs that told of the future in twisted rhymes"

Is is just me or does this remind you of the White Prophets? Probably just a coincidence.......

I love going back over the books and finding the info that her sneaky Hobbness puts right in front of our faces...that's the best bit, for mine! Yes, Nuytsia, I thought the same thing when I can across this passage.

Farseer/TM spoilers

Spoiler

"colour of gold" and "twisted rhyme" sounds Fool-like to me, and it bears greater significance when coupled with the legend that Fool came from the vicinity of Others' Island on the boat covered by shark-skin, I think it was? I have to go back and refind that passage but I have another comment re about that in the Fool thread. He may not have had "eyes like red coals" but he certainly didn't have human-like eyes either, and both Elderlings and pecksies have various eye colourations. So it, seemed, did WPs.

It also makes me think of the Rooster Crown, filled with bards who give voice, song and insight to the wearer....even someone as 'untalented' as Fitz, or so the minstrels themselves thought! I know I spoke about all this minstrel stuff somewhere else (sorry! ) but it also makes me think of Selden, how he suddenly became capable of speaking of things beyond what he knew, also sometimes in a very sing-song style of speech, imbued by the magic and memories that came with his contact with Tintaglia/the formation of becoming an Elderling.

For me, they are all related. It's not just a White Prophet thing.

As for the timing, re fifty years passing as if for a day, it is the same thing Fitz says of those lovers who use the pillars to escape parents etc as well as a couple of other things, including the time he lost in the Aslevjal pillar. It seems to me that these bards arrived and departed from Others' Island via the pillars in the same fashion...sometimes losing time and sometimes gaining it.

I can't help but also question the use of the raven sigil for Kennit and if there is any sort of link to it and the name Kaven Ravenlock. Still, I am going to begin a sigil/crest thread so maybe we might come up with something there!

[Nuytsia]

Hmm yes it occurred to me after I posted it could also have been an Elderling

I guess it was the 'twisted rhymes' that first made me think WP, and then the bard association (but of course anyone can be a bard), and the colour change (although it was the opposite of WP's going from light to dark) and the long period of time - when it says 'half a hundred years and returned as if but a day had passed for him' I just thought well he hadn't aged (like a WP) but yes it could also mean he was in some sort of state akin to that of Fitz in the Skill pillar...

Farseer which book tells of the Fool coming from the vicinity of Others Island?
(*hopes it's one I have!*)

I had forgotten about those changes in Selden you mentioned ...... with that being the case I suppose all the things about Ravenlock could be Elderling-y.

Which raises another interesting question - if the Ravenlock story is about someone who became an Elderling type being, was that because there were still dragons spending a lot of time on Others Island, or is there some way humans can be touched by Others? (wow that would be really complicated!)

I guess there's always the possibility this story was simply twisted along the way and it was simply dragons on Others Island at that time (presumably the ones who eventually became Others through too much association with humans???)

[Farseer]

and the long period of time - when it says 'half a hundred years and returned as if but a day had passed for him' I just thought well he hadn't aged (like a WP)

I just love this site and being able to hear everyone's different takes on things. Though I still think it's associated with the properties of the pillar, I hadn't even thought of the passing of time as just 'not having aged' or aged slowly...! I am going to have to think on that some as that could be a very important link to a few other things!!!

Farseer which book tells of the Fool coming from the vicinity of Others Island?
(*hopes it's one I have!*)

It's in AA, right at the beginning of Chapter Nine, Fat Suffices, though there may be others. I think there is truth in both 'legends' but that's for the Fool thread! Anything we discussed about that or any other F/TM stuff would need to be spoiler tagged.

Besides the obvious 'riddle' aspects of that passage, what's intriguing is the mention of sharkskin. There are other shark references throughout the various books but I find it interesting that, throughout all of the adventures we share in the LST, none of the serpents or any of the humans see or have a confrontation with a shark. It just goes to prove that while we get to see events as they happen, there are other 'peripheral' elements (obviously not overly important to the storyline and therefore we are not alerted to their full presence?) that tangle in with all the main ones that we are told!

Of course it could just mean that sharks don't inhabit the waters where serpents reign and therefore it (the sharkskin object) was created somewhere else far, far away....

['thul]

The reason sharks do not make much appearance is twofold.
one, sharks do not really hunt humans all that much. their main human prey is surfers and such, whom they think are dolphins...

Wikipedia puts it well...

More than any documented attack, Peter Benchley's best selling novel Jaws and the subsequent 1975 film adaptation directed by Steven Spielberg provided the great white shark with the image of a "man eater" in the public mind.[39] While great white sharks have killed humans, they typically do not target them: for example, in the Mediterranean Sea there have been 31 confirmed attacks against humans in the last two centuries, most non-fatal. Many incidents seem to be "test-bites". Great white sharks also test-bite buoys, flotsam, and other unfamiliar objects, and might grab a human or a surfboard to identify it.

Other incidents seem to be cases of mistaken identity, in which a shark ambushes a bather or surfer from below, believing the silhouette is from a seal. Many attacks occur in waters with low visibility, or other situations which impair the shark's senses. The species appears to not like the taste of humans, or at least finds the taste unfamiliar. Further research shows that they can tell in one bite whether or not the object is worth attacking. Humans, for the most part, are too bony for their liking. They much prefer a fat, protein-rich seal.

the second part of the reason is even more obvious...
Why write about sea predators that grow up to say, 6m, when you can write about the bigger and smarter sea predators that get to at least 30m?

[Nuytsia]

It's in AA, right at the beginning of Chapter Nine, Fat Suffices, though there may be others.

Yay it IS one I have!
I couldn't see a reference to it being near Others Island though?

Hah re sharks, wikipedia might want to check out Australia rather than the Mediterranean! We seem to have shark attacks occur reasonably frequently, and although I haven't checked out the stats, it seems like deaths occur every few years?
A person just died recently from a shark attack here.

But it's certainly not one of the more likely ways to die that's for sure!

['thul]

it was an example, quoted from the article about the great white shark...

Here is another quote from an article dedicated to shark attacks:

As of 2009, the ISAF recorded a total of 2,251 attacks worldwide since 1580, with 464 attacks being fatal. (ISAF = International Shark Attack File)

The fear of sharks, while more truthful, is like the fear of wolves... greatly exaggerated... Tigers are much more dangerous to humans than wolves are... yet they are not put in the same bad light as sharks/wolves...