Voyages of discovery? (spoilers for all RotE books)

['thul]

The basics of theology and magic are also different... At least some of the magic in soldier son is affected by iron, there isnt such in RotE.

Also its very uncommon to mix technological levels in that manner in fantasy... A bit too many uncertain elements, from what the 'thul can understand...

Differently is common, but not with a gap of several centuries. (pre-gunpower medieval to industrialized)

[Nuytsia]

It is a bit strange that dragons do appear to only live in this part of the world. But I agree that it seems they DO, otherwise surely the apparent virtual extinction wouldn't have happened.
Why they don't range further? Maybe they actually cannot undertake such a long flight over open ocean. I get the impression it's a LONG way over water to the areas we haven't heard about yet.
Otherwise, it could be the memory stone requirement that you mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised it if only occurs in this area. Heheh I hope Robin Hobb doesn't explain the intergalactic origins of memory stone... gives me bad memories of the later books of sara douglass in the Axis series.....

Yeah I am not sure why the liveships seem to be able to go as far as Jamailla but there seems to be a big cutoff right there. What's on the south side of Jamailla? I may have missed something but it never seems to be mentioned.

Oh also, I am not discounting the possibility that Gernia exists in the RoTE world!!! I never considered it, as it 'seems' a very different world. But there's nothing stopping it really, as there seems to be no contact between the RoTE world and whatever exists way over the ocean.

Chade *has* discovered gunpowder at least.....

Now, dragons have reappeared. They are capable of tremendous long-distance flights and have memories stretching back centuries at least. Surely they have crossed the oceans and ventured beyond the known world?
This raises another issue; why did dragons go extinct worldwide?..........If other populations did exist, why didn't Icefyre (or, later, Tintaglia) attempt to contact them? Perhaps they were perceived as too hostile.
On the other hand, perhaps dragons were very geographically limited. They clearly have an obligate symbiosis with memory stone. Perhaps memory stone is limited to a particular geographical area. This, in itself, would be interesting. Where did it come from? Is it the remains of an asteroid or crashed spacecraft or was it generated by some very rare and specific natural process?
In any case, it seems likely that the world is about to expand. Surely some dragon keeper or liveship captain will want to know what is on the other side of all that water and where do serpents go to feed?

[Farseer]

Yeah I am not sure why the liveships seem to be able to go as far as Jamailla but there seems to be a big cutoff right there. What's on the south side of Jamailla? I may have missed something but it never seems to be mentioned.

As recollected via Ephron, Althea, Brashen and even Vivacia, I always got the impression that the Spice Isles were quite a way south of Jamaillia? Will have to confirm that for you though!

In regard to other southern destinations, that the Black Man and Fool were able to travel for quite a distance south to their old school, via Skill pillars, makes me wonder if they meant as far as Jamaillia or even much further? The possibility of 'further' suggests that Elderlings onced travelled quite extensively south and there would appear to be memory stone down there somewhere as well (to be used for the Skill pillars). That begs the other question, which is really for another thread (!!), but will put it here to carry on...from where did the Black Man obtain his ability to Skill, as one must be Skilled to use the pillars, and he was confident of he and Fool's ability to travel by that means on their journey south from Aslevjal? As an extension of that, Fool had told Fitz when he was a youth that he had made his way north to Buckkeep through ways and times he was unable to describe to Fitz. Possibly there are ways of travel we are not yet aware of?!

Just on dragons being or not being in the world of Gernia...sorry, but another **Soldier Son spoiler***

Spoiler

I found it interesting that Nevare made a distinct comparison to dragons at one point when he was in his forest mage state, I think..something like it was the hunger of a dragon which he experienced or something similar. Hmm, obviously there is indeed a knowledge of dragons in those parts, either as something that has come from Gernian legend, fiction or known fact, otherwise Nevare would not have been able to make such a comparison !!!!

[Nuytsia]

Hmm I remember you mentioning the Spice Isles ...... but I don't recall it personally from the books so I have this impression in my head of a big blank space next to Jamailla!!!!
I guess that big blank space might be in my head instead!!!
Hehehe

So I guess they did mention other places south of J, just not a lot (?)

Yeah the Fool has secret Skill power I'm getting more and more convinced! (and probably all WP's)

Love the Gernia reference too - hmmm the plot thickens....

[Farseer]

Yeah the Fool has secret Skill power I'm getting more and more convinced! (and probably all WP's)

I, too, am reaching such a point of conviction!

[NeverBeenWise]

Maybe it's part of their deal as White Prophets: they get some Skill in order to affect the changes they must.

WAAAIT a second...

You know how Elderlings come into existence by human and dragon interaction? What happens if it's a dragon/White Prophet interaction, since WP's are so much different than humans are?

['thul]

it is hard to say what happens, as very little is known about white prophet physiology...
but its one of two:
- they remain unchanged
or
- they are changed

[Nuytsia]

I concur with those possibilities!

[Farseer]

Here are a few passages that I thought may contribute to the discussion re voyages, where lands masses are situated in the RotE and also where it is that dragons are able to live successfully:

***

In SOD, Reyn asked Tintaglia this question after they had hunted sea bullocks in the south, "And where is this Land of the Dragons? Up river from Trehaug, past the Rain Wilds?"

To this, Tintalgia replied,"Land of the Dragons? As if there were only one, a space defined by boundaries? Now there is a future only a human could imagine. We rule the sky. We rule the sea. And we rule the land. All land, everywhere."

This suggests that dragons are not in any way limited to having to reside in the vicinity of Kelsingra and other Elderling cities etc.

***

In AQ, Fitz noted that the map within the Kelsingra Map Tower depicted only the local area (the city and surrounding countryside) however, when he saw a similarly-made map within the Map Tower of Aslevjal in FF, he realised it was a world map - "...It was round, but it was not flat, nor drawn upon paper. Each island, each coast, each wave tip had been sculpted. Tiny mountains jutted in ranges, and the sea crinkled. Gleaming rivers meandered through grasslands to the sea.

An island, most likely Aslevjal, was in the exact centre of it. Other islands dotted the sea around it. To the south and west, I saw the coast of the Six Duchies, though it was subtly wrong in many places. To the north was a land I had no name for, and across a wide sea, on the eastern edge of the map I saw a coastline where tradition told me there was only endless ocean. Tiny gems had been randomly set into the map, each marked with a rune. Some seemed to glow with an inner light. One glittered white on Aslevjal. Four, set in a minute square, sparkled in Buck, near the mouth of the Buck River. There were a handful of others throughout the Six Duchies, some bright and some dull. There were more in the Mountain Kingdom, and a line of them, carefully spaced, along the Rain Wild River, though many of those were quenched..."

[Nuytsia]

Thanks for those refs Farseer!
Hmmm the first one welllll Tintaglia WOULD say that
Hehe , it MAY mean dragons roam where they please, or just that Tin doesn't want to admit otherwise (or her ignorance)

The second one does sound like the map shows the world as Fitz knows it and a little more - but I don't get the impression that there is a LOT more than Fitz knows? Not sure.
I imagine the Elderlings DID know of more than Fitz does.... whether they regularly travelled there or lived permanently there I am not so sure on.