[split]Berserker Fitz (spoilers all Hobb books)

[o0Ampy0o]

I would disagree that they are one and the same. Fool has both alluded and stated a number of that *all* can take on the role of a Catalyst, and create great change, in the world. But there is only one 'Changer'. Fitz.

What you say The Fool "alluded to" and "stated" are a distinction between catalyst and The Catalyst not Catalyst and Changer. The capitalization cannot be discounted. Alluding to something leaves too much open to conjecturing. Unless it was clearly stated I think it is probably not so. Hobb seems to make a point of making important points when it is significant to the world she is creating.

Just had to quickly add that it was not only Nighteyes who dubbed Fitz 'Changer'. He was given the name of 'The Changer' during his Man Ceremony (likely by his sponsoring Man whose role it was to both sponsor and name a ready and worthy recipient) around the moon of his fourteenth birthday ( see http://forums.theplenty.net/showthread.php?tid=191 ).

I do not recognize this Man Ceremony you referenced. I'll have to read that thread you linked to. Forgive me for being unaware of the previous discussions here. I can either proceed and speak or I can be silenced by the daunting task of catching up on the forum archives. I would like to proceed and participate here and I hope relevant discussions can be quoted or linked to for immediate reading. Being a late comer I suspect everything I might say has already been touched upon. But that is no fun........or perhaps I am just selfishly thinking of my own enjoyment. This may be boring to people who have been through it earlier?

The name given was of the old tongue and while it *does* say Fitz translated its ancient meaning via the words 'Catalyst' and then 'The Changer', I think that we (as the reader) are witnessing the events of the world because we are seeing the changes wrought by 'The Changer', not just another 'Catalyst'.

Nighteyes dubbed Fitz "Changer." Fitz saw that The Catalyst was called a changer or that The Catalyst was translated to The Changer or that a word in another language (old tongue) was translated to The Changer while reading ancient texts. That makes them the same thing. The bolded text above: Is this your feeling or a quote from the books?

The first time I recall the name "Changer" being applied to Fitz was when Nighteyes was contacting him using The Wit. Later Burrich called out to Fitz using "Changer" when he was attempting to draw Fitz out of Nighteyes and back into his own body after he had died in Regal's dungeon. It was always through Nighteyes' view that "Changer" was used. The Fool always used "Catalyst" as far as I can remember. Burrich used "Changer" because he was working with The Wit to communicate with Nighteyes using Nighteyes' language.

I don't know. I can't justify my reasoning but, for me, there is a very distinct difference. Think we have touched on all of this in the Wintrow or Liveships threads as well eg the difference between all having the opportunity to create change (someone suggested somewhere that Wintrow was 'The Catalyst' for the Cursed Shores/ the Liveships trilogy). I disagreed. Though he was 'a Catalyst'.

In order to have The Catalyst you have to have a White Prophet paired with it. Wintrow could only be a catalyst but not The Catalyst. Wintrow definitely was a catalyst when he freed the serpent on Others Island. That event changed the world.