*spoilers all books* Dragon Haven, Enjoy it? Hate it?

[McWolf]

@SweetFool: I can understand what you are saying. I did enjoy reading the book, the narrative was gripping enough that I wanted to keep reading but...

there was always a nagging feeling of when will something happen? When some action did happen it was concluded quickly. This novel is character driven not action driven. To me is seemed that relationships and lots of dialogue takes precedence over action. I would offer that this is 'ChickLit' with dragons. The dragons even sparkle in the sun, if that's what you like.

[maulkin]

This novel is character driven not action driven. To me is seemed that relationships and lots of dialogue takes precedence over action.

It seems to me that Hobb's novels have always been very character-based, compared to other those of other writers of epic fantasy. The Rain Wild Chronicles did not involve any major political events or feature any politically influential characters (except as brief cameos). The battles, intrigue and treachery all occurred on a very personal scale and occurred over a very brief period of time. While this gave the story a much less "epic" feel, it did allow Hobb to focus on more personal issues (homosexuality, disability, social exclusion) in a fantasy setting, without the distraction of an epic plot.

I would offer that this is 'ChickLit' with dragons.

The story is told from five perspectives, those of two women, two men and one female dragon. Most of the issues and challenges that form the theme of the story apply equally to both sexes. In particular, the theme of male homosexuality is not exactly a feminine issue, especially given that this issue is addressed mainly from Sedric's perspective. Are you describing the story as chicklit just because it features little by way of war and politics?

The dragons even sparkle in the sun, if that's what you like.

As I recall, Tintaglia has always been pretty sparkly!

[Blacky]

Okay, I'm actually starting to doubt whether it IS the same city!

It IS the same city - such good books - I hope there is more to come!

---

. Human + dragon = Eldering = good but Dragon + Human = Other= bad ??

The serpent that Wintrow freed called the 'others' abominations!

[Albertosaurus Rex]

It IS the same city - such good books - I hope there is more to come!

It does look that way, but for a long time I assumed that the city and the grove with the statues Fitz and Verity found were located north of the Mountain Kingdom, where the map just shows a lot of white space. So it took some time to wrap my mind around this.

By the way, welcome to the forums Blacky.

[Farseer]

I have lots of hopes for all of that 'white space', Albertosaurus Rex. I am thinking even giants may have to make an appearance from up there somewhere...but that's possibly for another post altogether!

[Blacky]

By the way, welcome to the forums Blacky.
[/quote]

Thanks - veery happy to be here!!

[Farseer]

I really am a Hobb fan, I just think that in comparison to her earlier series, the Rain Wilds books were not in the same league at all. Anybody else feel the same way?

I think you are right in what you say, Sweet Fool, however I didn't mind that there was not a lot of impact , even though I did expect some certain things to happen. I simply enjoyed that it added weight to the rest of the tale and answered some questions re the experiences of Fitz and Tintaglia pointing to the existance of Kelsingra etc.

Judged on its own, I could see that it may be considered a disappointing read but, to me, it was really only ever going to be just another small installment of the whole, sweeping story that Robin wants to tell, particularly given that she did only intend it to be the one book. In this way, both DK and DH, as a singular entity, is not unlike Robin's other RotE-related short stories...indeed they very much put me in mind of 'Homecoming' (which was also set in the Rain Wilds). While these short stories don't necessarily contain her usual "wow factor Hobb-ness", they certainly are vital, I believe, for a full understanding of the whole saga.

As for dialogue and communication over action, I think it is important to note that this aspect is crucial to the story in that it relates in detail the growing sensitivity of the keepers (future Elderlings) etc to the

Spoiler

Skill, Wit or that other sense that combines the two. An example of this would be Sedric who couldn't hear or communicate with the dragons at all until he had consumed the dragon blood. We see this same strengthening of sensitivity in all of the other books as well eg Brashen with Vivacia/Paragon; Malta and Reyn with each other and Tintaglia; Chade, Dutiful and Nettle etc, but here, in the midst of so many Lords of the Three Realms, it is on a much grander scale.

Spoilers here for Farseer, LST and Tawny Man

[Farseer]

Still more points in favour of Fitz and Tintaglia’s city being Kelsingra, though sorry for flogging this thread!

In Dragon Keeper, Mercor says, "I'd like to drink deeply of the silvery wells of Kelsingra."

Mercor mentions no other city with these wells...not Cassarick, Fengong or any of the other Elderling cities within the realm. This tells me that Kelsingra was the ONLY city to have a well of silver substance, as does this passage when Sintara went on to dream about Kelsingra:

“There was a well there, a well deeper than the river that bordered the city. A bucket dropped into its depths sank past ordinary water to a deeper river of a most extraordinary substance. Even a tiny amount of it was dangerously intoxicating for an Elderling and possibly fatal for a human. But dragons could drink from it.”

Obviously the Rain River had, at one time, run clear, as this would have been the source of drinking water for the Elderlings and humans who had lived in/near Kelsingra (as well as Fengong and Cassarick etc). They certainly couldn’t have ingested the silver substance or the murky Rain River water if it had existed in its present form. It is also interesting that the silver substance was dangerously intoxicating for an Elderling, in the same way that “the Skill” itself is dangerously intoxicating eg Fitz and Verity proved this true.

In this, I believe that it IS the silver liquid of the Skill that has turned the river water murky/white. In turn this has caused the water to become dangerous for consumption and/or touch, particularly for humans (though the dragons, too, felt the effects of its toxicity at times). That this would also then mean that those who had somehow come in contact with the water would take on elements of Skill seems to have actually been proven true in that those “strongly touched by the Rain Wilds” often had a heightened sensitivity to the liveships or the dragons themselves (and hence the Skill, Wit or whatever). At the very least, these ones were more susceptible to an increase in their own sensitivity eg Reyn, Leftrin, all keepers who were more "touched" than most etc. Most who journey to the Cursed Shores experience an increase in ‘dreams’ and this may be from coming into contact with the Skill via the Skill-imbued river water eg Fitz is Skilled and therefore able to Skill dream normally but even Fitz himself noted the danger of the increased dreams he experienced while in the region with Nighteyes (when he seriously contemplated suicide).

Another thought is the lack of life along the Skill Road and around other Skill-wrought objects...this reflects the lack of life in the entire region of the shoreline that comes in contact with the Rain River etc that Fitz retold to Fool from his journey to the Cursed Shores. We were told in AQ, by Kettle I think, that Skill-imbued hands should not touch anything that is living as it would mean death. This is also true of those touched by the Rain Wilds (or the Rain River water which runs with liquid from the Skill Rover) as they live short lives in comparison to those not so exposed. They die young, unless given Elderling status...

Sintara continues: “An Elderling woman, gowned in green and gold, turned the crank on the windlass of a well, and brought up a bucket full of gleaming silver drink.”

This is the same windlass that Fitz saw in AQ (Fitz actually ‘saw’ it in operation) and that Tintaglia then destroyed in SOD due to her frustration in not being able to drink the silver liquid as she had remembered (at one point she thought she saw silver at the bottom). Worthy to also note were the colours worn by the Elderling woman...green and gold...wasn’t She Who Remembers a green/gold colour? Yet another little connection or yet another coincidence?!

Returning to Sintara - as she dreams of drinking the silver substance, she says it was “filling her heart with song and her mind with poetry”. This sounds very minstrel-like and also like Thick’s Skill-talent which manifested itself in song...possibly the enjoyment experienced from this type of poetic/melodious state via the Skill River was why dragons also enjoyed the poetry and music of minstrels, who were subsequently rewarded with a place within the Rooster Crown?

Sintara also recalled that “A fine road of smooth black stone bordered one side of the river, with tributary paths and by-ways wandering out to the more rural districts.”

I understand this to mean the Skill Road that Fitz and co travelled along, and that Tintaglia also noted as she flew above Kelsingra.

Three cheers to Chrischa for her previous post which touched on some of these same points of interest – it was BRILLIANT, Chrischa, and reflected many of my own questions and thoughts!

[joost]

I am compiling a list of dragons and keepers, but I seem to be missing a few connections. Perhaps someone else can fill in some blanks?

Dragon - Keeper
Arbuc - Alum
Baliper - Warken(+)
Fente - Tats
Heeby - Rapskal
Kalo - Greft(+)/Davvie
Mercor - Sylve
Ranculos - Harrikin
Relpda - Sedric
Sintara - Thymara
Spit - Carson
Veras - Jerd

I can't find the keeper for Sestican, and I can't find the dragon for Kase, Boxter, Nortel and Lecter. Can anyone fill in the blanks?

[Mervi]

The online preview of the US edition of DH contains a cast of characters list (click on "Table of Contents" and then "Other back matter")
... but I haven't checked it against what is actually inside the book - I remember looking at it and thinking "hmm... can't remember a name like that" so didn't copy it to the wiki. It might be that my memory is not as good as I think, though.