Others' Island (spoilers all books incl RWC)

[Farseer]

Just another 'random' comment until I get back to read over the posts I've missed...

It is interesting to note the colours Brashen and Althea chose for their 'pirate' flag...you guessed it, a red (scarlet) serpent on a blue background...gotta love Robin's consistency !

[nessie]

Hi all, I'm Chrischa's sister, the one she has those interesting chats (!) with. :-)

I've found two more things regarding the Other's beach, unfortunatly nothing that helps getting any closer to a definitive solution but worth mentioning anyway.

One is that when Kennit crushes the rose and the Other predicts that he's gonna be taken by the sea for that, I think it's referring to the leg with which he crushes the rose, aka, the leg that gets eaten by the sea serpent.

And the other thing are those teacups with a blue flower pattern on them. They do re-appear, Kennit's mother is carrying them into the room at the near end of the Liveship's books when they're in the Satrap's palace getting ready for the ball.
Maybe this confirms what you guys had guessed, that they do stand for Kennit's missed chances...

Ah I loooooooooooooove those little things to pick up she puts into the books!!!

[NeverBeenWise]

Sorry this is so late, but I was wondering about how someone said that Hobb said that there would be some other significance/reason revealed as to why the Others hate and fear cats.

I haven't read Liveships or the Rain Wilds Chronicles. However, I think we're all extremely interested in finding out if/when/how Fitz's story will continue, and if there will be another trilogy to tie off his relationship with the Fool - or just to follow his story again.

Also, Dutiful's Wit coterie will want to serve him when he's King. Pretty much a given. So if Fitzy's story were to continue, what would happen? He's already stayed in the Duchies. He's gone to the Mountain Kingdom and to the Out Islands. If FitzChivalry's story were to continue, there seems only one other logical area that he could go: near Chalced and the Rain Wilds. So there he may very well end up on Treasure Beach again with Nettle's Coterie, the Wit coterie, and possibly King Dutiful (or even Prince Prosper). The Prince would most likely be Witted and strongly Skilled due to his parents' exposure to dragons.

Why do I go off in this vein, you ask? Because Civil is in the Wit Coterie. And he's bonded to his cat, Pard. Knowing Dutiful's attraction to cats, he or Prosper might also have a cat as a bond-beast. If they get to Treasure Beach again, the cats would definitely come in handy. And if they ever come across the newest generation of Elderlings, which they undoubtedly would if they're down in the Rain Wilds and off on an adventure, they could be told exactly why the Others despise cats so much.

I could be going off on a limb, but I don't think this is too far-fetched. The Others are strong and can use Skill commands, so if the Duchies men are exploring Treasure Beach, they'll need cats to hold them at bay. My guess is that Dutiful would stay home. Prosper, if he came along, would be very suceptible to the Others if he's as strongly Skilled as I suspect he will be, so he'd need to be bonded to a cat to keep from being taken in.

I know this is really grasping at straws, but since Thick is so strong in the Skill and since he often thinks of himself as a kitten, wouldn't he be able to Skill-suggest to the Others that he's a cat, and escape from harm that way?

[Farseer]

One is that when Kennit crushes the rose and the Other predicts that he's gonna be taken by the sea for that, I think it's referring to the leg with which he crushes the rose, aka, the leg that gets eaten by the sea serpent.

And the other thing are those teacups with a blue flower pattern on them. They do re-appear, Kennit's mother is carrying them into the room at the near end of the Liveship's books when they're in the Satrap's palace getting ready for the ball.
Maybe this confirms what you guys had guessed, that they do stand for Kennit's missed chances...

Well met, nessie !! I KNEW those teacups were linked somewhere with Kennit's mother so thanks for confirming that...I have been trying to find them again without success! Also loved your comment re the crushed rose and Kennit's leg !!

I agree, NeverBeenWise, in that it is interesting that cats may definitely be the key to future events, and Dutiful's fondness for them is VERY intriguing!!! I don't think your ideas are far-fetched at all...good one ! Will be back to chat some more but, in the meantime, there is also a 'cats' thread on here that has lots of insightful comments if you haven't yet had a look! Your next port of call is the Liveship Traders...get them any way you can...they are a MUST in your understanding of the overall story...enjoy!

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Frantic to post on here while juggling heaps of busy jobs. Know that you posted in two threads re iron, maulkin but can't find the other so will put my comment here.

***Soldier Son trilogy comment/possibly spoiler?***

Spoiler

I couldn't help but latch on to the iron reference in 'Shaman's Crossing' eg that iron collars etc can prevent the plainspeople from using their magic...could it be that iron was used for the bars to contain She Who Remembers for a similar reason/purpose, or are they totally unrelated? Even if the Gernia/RotE worlds and stories are unrelated, as Robin has said they are, could this still give us any insight into the use of iron for these particular bars? I have wondered often if Forge was hit first by the Pale Woman, as it is an area rich in iron? Reading the RotE books has spoiled me for Soldier's Son, hasn't it D??

[Chrischa]

It's not the only place were iron is mentioned as being nefast for magic; I've come across it yesterday in a Neil Gaiman short story, where some mythical creature shouts at his attacker; "Fight me fair! Not with your cold iron!" And I'm sure it's mentioned in other places as well. It must be interwoven in mythology somewhere.
As to it stopping the serpents... it's a very good idea, but I'm not sure. Nowhere do the stories say anything about iron burning the dragons or serpents, and we flip to their point of view quite a few times. But I know that doesn't compeletely rule it out either.

I love the teacups' mention as well, my sister pointed it out to me before she posted it here and it's such a well-hidden but clever clue... wonderful, typical Robin Hobb stuff.
Makes me wonder if those teacups are not only a symbol for Bingtown high society but also for his mother. After all, it's not normal what he does to her either, how he abandons her on her own on that island. I think Mother is a very clever addition to the story, after all she knows what Kennit went through, so she acts both out of a mother's concern and out of the knowledge of how damaged he really is inside. In the end, she does the hard thing in re-uniting him with Paragon, which she knows is necessary, even though Kennit sees it as betrayal.

[Farseer]

re teacups...yes, when Kennit droppped off Kyle etc to his childhood home, he promised his mother when he left that he would bring her back a set of teacups on his return, after he had noticed the worn condition her own were in. I think it is very likely that they could just as easily symbolise his mother and/or his relationship with her, Chrischa. I also liked Mother's inclusion in the storyline and, as a mother myself, I'd hope I'd have her courage should the need ever arise!

Thanks re your comments on iron. I wondered if this was the case (that it is used elsewhere through the fantasy genre at times, to ward off magic). I can't recall reading anything like that before but then I have not read as much fantasy as most other Hobb fans seem to have . I got the feeling that 'iron' took on a couple of meanings eg an iron collar was quite different to the toting of 'cold iron? The former could be specifically used to ward off magic however the latter I took to simply mean a firearm of some sort (not in RotE so much but generally...though I am only going on my limited view of that which is contained in Shaman's Crossing so far!)?

Not sure if you (or nessie!) have come across maulkin's original questioning but he wondered who fashioned the bars to contain SWR and how they obtained the iron etc...one earlier post in this thread and another in the Mythical Creatures thread. Any ideas?

[Chrischa]

Not sure if you (or nessie!) have come across maulkin's original questioning but he wondered who fashioned the bars to contain SWR and how they obtained the iron etc...one earlier post in this thread and another in the Mythical Creatures thread. Any ideas?

Yes; we think about these books too much.

How about the Others used their Skill to persuade a craftsman who was walking the beach to make the bars for them?

My sister, who is sitting next to me atm (we have an advantage over you, it seems) says that She Who Remembers touches the iron bars when she escapes, and they don't seem to do her any harm then, so...

['thul]

While iron is often a counter to magic in fantasy, it does not appear to be so in the realm of the elderlings. These beings are quite sure that the dragons would laugh at the concept of iron being a problem for them. Why should a creature as arrogant and mighty as a dragon fear a simple thing as iron?

[Nuytsia]

Thanks re your comments on iron. I wondered if this was the case (that it is used elsewhere through the fantasy genre at times, to ward off magic). I can't recall reading anything like that before but then I have not read as much fantasy as most other Hobb fans seem to have I got the feeling that 'iron' took on a couple of meanings eg an iron collar was quite different to the toting of 'cold iron? The former could be specifically used to ward off magic however the latter I took to simply mean a firearm of some sort (not in RotE so much but generally...though I am only going on my limited view of that which is contained in Shaman's Crossing so far!)?

Yep there are a lot of references to iron being able to cause specific harm to magical beings in many fantasy stories. Not sure who first came up with that one, or if it's part of mythology.
OK I had to check good ole wikipedia, and it turns out it IS an old mythology and the article actually has some comments about the term 'cold iron' which I didn't know, so that may answer your question on 'cold iron' Farseer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_in_folklore

[Farseer]

Love it, thanks Nuytsia! I must admit that, as I got further into the SS story, it became apparent that 'cold iron' referred mostly to iron in its cooled state and not a gun (I've read too many westerns !).
**Soldier Son spoiler**

Spoiler

If only Nevare had read this:Surrounding a cemetery with an iron fence was thought to contain the souls of the dead, it may have saved him some trouble during his post at Gettys!

ps Though I've been traipsing around the state myself of late, and so not been on a lot, I've missed your posts!!