Malta *spoilers all Hobb books*

[Farseer]

Re-doing after Mozilla crashed midway through (on Internet Explorer now!), and after a morning of with Windows7, many and varied internet issues and laptop changes...

My immediate reaction to this phrase upon re-reading it feels right in one of those ways you just KNOW it's right (hahah, great theory proving evidence, yes?)

Having used this 'evidence' for proving my own theories many times, I'm happy to buy into it!

And that is: Tintaglia is (was) the being who will steal her wings to fly. I don't think it meant Malta would literally fly, but that Tintaglia would take Malta's life in order to free herself and live/fly/be a dragon. Which happened.

So I believe Amber's advice was to beware Tintaglia using her in order to live and be free. Luckily for Malta, she didn't die in the attempt.

Bravo! Gotta love brainstorming! This is not an angle I've ever thought of...hmm...

As for Malta's luck, I'm likely going to regret this comment, once I have read CoD or BoD and am able to go back and check out these spoilers (!!) but I don't believe that Malta was ever in danger of death from her drowning in memories. After all, she was/is an Elderling. The same goes for ones such as Fitz, Reyn, [[Carillion Carrock]] etc. Carillion is an especially important example as she fully drowned in them way before Malta ever did and this act on her part proved only to be beneficial to not only herself but the entire party who followed her to safety. It was knowledge that Carillion gained from that drowning, not death.

If memory stone was dangerous for Elderlings, all would have 'drowned' or lost themselves not only in Kelsingra but whenever they came into contact with it eg Trehaug, the Skill Pillars etc. They could never have used it as a material for building.

Also, a little like the cries of those who call to Fitz and other Skilled Ones, I suppose (especially noticed in Farseer trilogy when Shrewd, Verity and Fitz were often called or reached for by others), memory stone and Kelsingra etc calls to Elderlings and those whose ancestors have breathed a dragon's breath. I am certain that Fitz himself specifically said or alluded to the fact that the city called him (will confirm that), and this is why he wanted to return there. If not for Nighteyes, he would have. Even during his journeying to Bingtown etc, he still managed to find himself in a small boat with Nighteyes, making his way north via the Rain River (though unknowingly) back to the city. I know that I at least touched on this point in the Homecoming thread, though there it is more about "the land remembering"...

Without ones such as Malta and Carillion, who were prepared to drown in the memories, well...

...and, of course, we know that they survived. Ones such as Reyn's father simply just must not have been an Elderling or of Elderling ancestory...he was, and died, a human, in my opinion.

I think Fitz (or someone?) even wondered at one stage about how silly it was for him to have ever feared losing himself within the Skill stream...once he threw himself fully into it, he "swam" rather than "drowned" as he'd expected to. He'd always been able to swim it.

Argh! Now I'm beginning to wonder if that was actually attributed to Carillion or Malta, or to even both AND Fitz! Will come back when my day is less full...

I think you sorted out your own riddle in the same post but didn't even realize it, Farseer.

If the Skill-Link between Fitz and Fool was 'severed' after Fool removed his fingerprints.. then deductive reasoning would state that, even if he did have a Skill-Link with Malta due to the dragon-saving episode, it would now be severed also (due to aforementioned fingerprint skill removal).

My immediate reaction was to want to put up my hand and say, "Miss...I'm confused."

I'm afraid I can't see what you mean, Valarya. Fool removed the silver Skill mark from Fitz but not from Malta, so I am assuming that if Fool and Malta had ever shared a Skill-link, which I believe they had no matter how slight, then this would mean that they shared one still. Fool severing his Skill-link with Fitz did not mean that his link with Malta would also be severed in the doing. In this, I think that we will later learn that not only does the silver mark remain on Malta's neck (seeing as I disagree with the 'thul beings that it only signifies the commencement of her scaling) but that Fool has witnessed events or 'been with Malta' ever since their parting, and throughout TM and the RWC, in much the same way as Fitz felt that Fool had been with him throughout the Amber years, despite not being there in person.

Time will tell though...

[Valarya]

I don't believe that Malta was ever in danger of death from her drowning in memories. After all, she was/is an Elderling.

If memory stone was dangerous for Elderlings, all would have 'drowned' or lost themselves not only in Kelsingra but whenever they came into contact with it eg Trehaug, the Skill Pillars etc. They could never have used it as a material for building.

You're a smart cookie!!!!!!

I am certain that Fitz himself specifically said or alluded to the fact that the city called him (will confirm that), and this is why he wanted to return there.

I thought it was the Skill Road that called to him, specifically? Not the city, itself. I like that you said you were certain, but would have to confirm, in the same sentence!

Fool removed the silver Skill mark from Fitz but not from Malta..

Yeah, that's totally my fault. I was thinking the Fool removed the Skill from his fingertips. Dunno why on earth I'd think that, tho. Sorry!

['thul]

These beings actually could not recall till you mentioned it that the fool, or rather, amber, placed a mark on Malta. It is quite possible that this opened her up to more. Say opened her up to the magical aspects of Elderlings. *points to start of DK*

[Narya]

Some VERY delayed responses:

I also thought that one of the dragons could have been Tintaglia but, as we came to know, Tintaglia was blue, not silver or gold (though, I have to admit, she is described as being a combination of blue and silver at times, but you would think her colouring within the Skill River would be blue, her dominant colour?!).

Tintaglia recalled that when she emerged from her cocoon, she was silver and blue, and was surprised, as she had imagined herself silver only.

A couple of minor questions concerning the crest:
Did Malta have some form of head wound prior to its growth?
How well-formed was the crest upon first encounter?

Malta had a small head wound in the crash of Davad's carriage, when the Satrap and Companion were absconded with. At first, it seemed like a little scab, then like proud flesh, but then it just kept getting bigger and bigger.

['thul]

Well, these beings now recall one part about the crest... remember the quote of Mercor that Sylve came up with? the one about open wounds and changes?
Though the crest might have been latent before she played with the cocoon, it did not truly start growing until afterwards, yet the wound had not had time to heal by then. Thus the crest started out unguided, much like a certain pair of wings. (that also explains the surprise in Tintaglia upon discovering the crest)

[Farseer]

Tintaglia recalled that when she emerged from her cocoon, she was silver and blue, and was surprised, as she had imagined herself silver only.

Thanks Narya. I think we may have mentioned that later in the conversation? Keep going though...I was hoping you'd jump into some LST-related stuff and update things while it's all still fresh after your recent read!

A couple of minor questions concerning the crest:

Ahem, no, I never did get back to replying to those beings known as 'thul so thanks!!

[finella]

I just finished "The mad ship", therefore all is hopefully pretty fresh to me.

Coming back the Malta onboard The Paragon I believe it was the dominant dragon inside Paragon and Tintaglia, that fought over her. The dominant "Paragon-dragon" was golden and Tintaglia at that time iriscident silver (or better dreamt she was). The golden one in my opinion only wanted vengeance for everything the humans did to him. For Tintaglia Malta was a tiny chance to live. And Amber got Malta back resp. stabilized her with her skill, as she had held Malta's head without her glove and touched her neck with her fingertips. When Malta awoke again she first rubbed the back of her neck, where Amber/The Fool had left the fingerprint. I'm sure, there was/is a skill-link between them.

Ähem,what else ...? Ah, yes! Tintaglia herself told Reyn, that Malta didn't drown in the memories: "She dove into them, most willingly. From the moment she entered the city, she was far more open to it than any other I have encountered. She dove and she swam."

To Malta, a lot of things in the old city seemed very familiar, even some music, the theatre and things conc. art.
Wasn't Ronica a born Carrock? If yes (I'm not absolutely sure), she certainly will share Carillions memories and therefore feel so familiar in there and didn't drown in the memories.

One question: were is said, that Tintaglia is silver-blue? When she hatched, her body changed from black to dark blue and her wings also became blue.

"Then, like dye spilled in water, color flowed through them. Her wings went from transparent to translucend to a rich sparkling blue. As she waved them slowly and unevenly, Reyn could see the strength building in them. She unlidded her eyes suddenly; they glinted silver. She looked at herself. "Blue. Not silver, as I dreamed. Blue.""
(I always thought here eyes were copper)

[Farseer]

First up, I think I may have confused the 'blueness' of Tintaglia with the 'blueness' of Sintara (as it was Sintara, I think, who was particularly disappointed to discover that she was a 'common blue' and not a rarer colour!). Though Tintaglia WAS blue once she emerged, she was a silver-blue and that made me think of something I remembered mentioned of her earlier colouring whilst she was still in the cocoon, and this is where she still was during the clash of the dragons AND when she appeared in one of the dreams shared by Reyn and Malta. This being so, I went back to one of those dream-box scenes and found:

"A dragon hovered above the trees. The powerful beat of her wings spurred the winds. Even the cloud-dimmed light of the sun could not diminish her glory. She was iridescent (same word used to describe silver dragon in the original quote). Colours chased one another over her silver body and wings . Her eyes were copper."

Gotta love research !

It's almost midnight but I'm going to have a quick stab at this and hope I don't discover later that I've been dribbling!

Hmm, yes, finella. Going on this old quote I gave above regarding the dream-box scene, it does say that Tintaglia's eyes are copper and her silver body. This, at least I believe, is simply how Tintaglia saw herself and thus this is how she represented herself when she appeared to Reyn and Malta in the dream they all shared.

Obviously this was not her true colouring when she emerged, as she was surprised by her blue colour (as is evidence by your quote). As I mentioned before, blue appears to be the most common colour for a dragon as Sintara (?) too was disappointed once she'd discovered that she was only blue. For me, Tintaglia had merely dreamed herself as being silver with silver wings and if she was wrong about that, well, likely she was wrong about her copper eyes as well...the colour of which she had also dreamed.

I guess it's not unlike how Nettle dreamed of Fitz when she still saw him as 'Shadow Wolf'. She had never seen him in the flesh and so dreamed him wolf-like in their Skill-sharing in the form that she had imagined him. Like Nettle, Tintaglia was yet to actually see herself and so likely just dreamed herself as she saw herself in her imagination...with silver scales and copper eyes rather than her true blue scales and silver eyes?

Ah, I think I may have read your question wrong so will have to come back and re-read when I feel a little more awake, I think! Silver-blue...will try and go back and reference where that came from!

As for Ronica, yes, she is a Carrock just as Carillion was but that is not to say that she is definitely of Carillion's line as Carillion was only a Carrock by marriage (her maiden name being Waljin). Rather, it was her husband, Jathan, who was a Carrock by blood and it was he who left the Rain Wilds with the party who ended up at Bingtown. Ronica had once mentioned that her ancestors had left the Rain Wilds and made their home in Bingtown, which is also where Ronica grew up. In this she was descended from an original Bingtown Trader family. She didn't grow up in the Rain Wilds as she would have if she'd been one of Carillion's off-spring. Likely then, Ronica is actually a decendant of Jathan's but possibly by a later re-marriage to another woman. Of course, there are lots of theories and it will be interesting if we ever find confirmation of any of them!

For a little more of my thoughts (so likely as far-fetched as a theory is likely to get! ) on Ronica's possible connection, you may like to have a look in the Homecoming thread where we have chatted about it previously (I think I raised the issue at post # 6 but we didn't get stuck into it until around post # 15 through to post # 25).

[finella]

Yes, Farseer, you're right. Carillion is a married Carrock. I remembered that wrongly. But still, I think, Malta could share some of Carillions memories.

These memories ..., hard to explain or find a logic behind them. They are there, they take over some people, who come to the Rain Wilds. Probably people, that in a way "belong" there, or, let's say, have the right attitude(spirit. In "Homecoming" Carillion said: "Some spirit of the Rain Wilds whispered to me, "Try to master it and it will engulf you. Become a part of it, and live."" One might change these words in "Try to master it and you will drown. Become part of it and you will swim." (coming back to Malta).
Puh, difficult to describe my thoughts and feelings on that. It sometimes is an only big mishmash, sorry .

Conc. Tintaglia: She has said it herself. She dreamt herself silver. Ah, yes, therefore I thought, she had copper eyes. Because she dreamt herself silver with copper eyes and shows herself in that shared dream of Malta and Reyn. And therefore, on board the Paragon, "Iriscent silver clashed suddenly with gold. Mountains collided and fought for possession of her. ..."

Ah, sorry for all that. It's probably a never-ceasing repetition for all of you.

[Farseer]

Repitition? Not at all! I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE...talking about the books! My only problem is an utter lack of time of late. I just hate that I can't get on here to chat about things.

A year or two ago I would constantly complain to my husband that I couldn't even get my Hobb fix here on thePlenty because everyone mostly wanted to talk about 'What they're doing now' or similar things from the non-Hobb threads! Heh...you know you're obsessed when not even thePlenty can fulfill your need to talk Hobb!

Hopefully it won't be long before I can jump back in here again and fully join in the fun! I'm off to get some things done but I AM coming back to this discussion...!