The Fool (spoilers for all RotE books, including LST)

['thul]

often, how religious the characters are is a reflection of the author(s). If an author isn't a true believer in god(s), then that will most of the time reflect upon the writing.

[Farseer]

I have most of my time in 'fluffy' spots here of late, and avoiding discussions because I have this thing in me that means I have to join in even if I have no time to or even anything decent to contribute ( ! ) so must go back and read all of these at some point before responding to my last post etc.

In the meantime, you may like to add points from this thread ---> (see at least post #193: http://forums.theplenty.net/showthread.php?tid=194&page=20), and links to other discussions therein, to this one...

That's not to say that things can't continue here, of course...keep going ...just that for the sake of adding other thoughts into the mix re Sa, you may like to go over and have a look if you haven't previously.

The wiki may even share some references as well though it is a bit bare in some spots...

[Valarya]

So happy you finally chimed in, Farseer. Hahah. While I don't want to get involved in the hermaphrodite discussion - the misrepresentation of Sa was annoying the crap outta me. So in case people aren't feeling very click-happy and don't want to do the research... I'm going to copy/paste something from aforementioned post #193 right here:

.....but Sa (at least as we are suggested of Sa thus far) has at least a female, male and a serpent aspect, as well as a jewel face. This use of the word 'jewel' in connection to the face could well be representative of the 'facets' of Sa (as jewels have facets and Sa, like Fool and many other characters, also has a number of facets) and/or be descriptive of Sa's actual, physical face eg scales like a dragon/Elderling.

As for the serpent aspect, Wintrow spoke of the followers of Odava when he went to Cress and Odava is the 'name' of the serpent god. Followers of Sa accept his part but followers of Odava believe Odava to be a god in his own right as they don't believe that he is an aspect of Sa. Possibly the male and female aspects of Sa could be El and Eda, though only known individually by those names in the Six Duchies and Out Islands etc?

Likely you'll find plenty more of all this over in the Mythical Creatures/Folk or earlier here in the Small, random questions threads, both of which will also include a discussion re Sa and connections with dragons and Elderlings etc.

[o0Ampy0o]

I am finding this to be an awkward place to participate in because so much requires that you have already read everything. There are previous discussions and spoilers. The time spent reading the books is a time when this is fresh in your mind and the desire to talk is strong. My initial post was made right after completing Tawny Man, thereafter I seem to have brought up topics that have seen a lot of mileage here.

As much as I love certain books I do not enjoy re-reading them. I'd like to support my perspective with actual text references. I would re-read to gather information. Yet, as I have said earlier, everything I could say has already been discussed somewhere. On the topic of Sa I see no point in making a case for my perception because people appear to have enough knowledge to conclude that I am mistaken so most likely I am.

Sorry to take this thread off topic. I made the Sa assertion here in the process of discussing the Fool. It seemed to be the place to resolve it with a brief explanation but the "To be continued..." should include "in another thread."

[Valarya]

As much as I love certain books I do not enjoy re-reading them. I'd like to support my perspective with actual text references.

You'll find that a lot of the people who post here often have read the series more than once, sometimes more than twice or three times (like myself and Farseer, at least). I have been reading fantasy books for a long time, and have read tons of series; I consider this series to be my ultimate favorite. It only took top-spot upon my second re-read, because I picked up on SO much more, and finally read them in the correct order. No one here requires you to re-read and we often use text references from the books themselves, which is a GREAT way to discuss. So no harm done at all.

...everything I could say has already been discussed somewhere.

I hope this doesn't deter you from joining in on discussions, because while a lot of things have been covered, there are always fresh opinions or perspectives to be seen. I find it extremely interesting that you perceived Sa in the way you did, even though that's not actually how Sa is portrayed. People tend to take different things away from books and interpretations can be varied. The discussions would get rather boring if we didn't have fresh insights on them!!

On the topic of Sa I see no point in making a case for my perception because people appear to have enough knowledge to conclude that I am mistaken so most likely I am.

Hopefully you weren't offended. Oft times I discuss books or ideas & my closest book-friends will tell me I read something wrong and I always relish getting a new way to look at some beloved texts.

[o0Ampy0o]

Oh no, I wasn't offended, thanks.

[finella]

I'm pretty sure I remember a passage in Tawny Man, when Fitz experienced a matriach being and, I think it was Dutiful (but I'm not quite sure), experienced the same as a patriach being, Or am I completely off the track?

['thul]

At least one of those could've been tintaglia. (it was in the skillstream)

[o0Ampy0o]

Fitz had another matriarch experience separate from anyone else when he was recovering from something severe or was deeply lost in the Skill.

I don't think Fitz tied the dragon together with at least one matriarch experience. He identified the dragon when it would contact him. He seemed to remain puzzled by the other experience(s).

['thul]

in the "chats" with tintaglia, he was merely skimming the surface of the skill. In the events with the presence(s), he was utterly submerged in it. Would a fish look the same when seen in the depths of a murky river as it looks lying in the freezing disk in the store?