Favorite tv shows

[redchild]

I suspect they kept the franchise name Last Airbender for both legal reasons and to keep avoid confusion with James Cameron's sf movie. But yeah it would make more sense to name it Avatar. I suppose you just can't avoid retcon in some cases.

And I also agree about animation being geared towards adults. The mentality of animation = kids is probably the main reason why animation is stymied. You can only push the story and imagery so far if your audience is primarily for kids.

These beings agree... Adult-aimed fantasy animation would be great. A lot of books have geographical features that are near-impossible to reproduce using both various climes and CGI. Like Alagaesia's 10,000m+ mountains. It is also easier to make the various creatures native to fantasy in animation... Its possible to make most of it in CGI, but only if you have a budget in the 10's of millions of dollars per episode.

Nothing is impossible to make nowadays. The technology is more than capable and there are many talented artists who can do the job. But like you said, the more elaborate the setting the more money it will cost. Art departments are already on tight deadlines trying to keep up with each episode, but they also have to keep it under budget.

Also, a lot of the work goes overseas esp in Asia where studios can get work done for a lot cheaper. So if we do see an increase of animated series based in Western countries, it will probably bring along with it it's own share of social problems. A lot of people who work in animation in east Asia are already working in sweatshop-like hours to keep up with the demand. There have been some steps in the right direction for workers, however, I hope Western studios never resort to mistreating workers as an option.

[Albertosaurus Rex]

And I also agree about animation being geared towards adults. The mentality of animation = kids is probably the main reason why animation is stymied. You can only push the story and imagery so far if your audience is primarily for kids.

Absolutely true. The thing that always baffles me is that animation has become become geared towards kids in the west, but that this hasn't happened in countries like Japan. Has anyone ever investigated how and why this development took place?

I wonder if the tide might one day turn. Anime is becoming increasingly popular in the west, even if it isn't quite mainstream yet, and a large number of not-kids was perfectly willing to watch Avatar. I myself find that a certain handful of cartoons has enough epicness to make me watch even if it is for children... like Avatar, W.I.T.C.H. (only barely, though), the new Thundercats remake and an old show that I've recently discovered: Gargoyles. An animated show for adults... now that would have me on board in no time.

I do kinda get where the Korra title change comes from, but I wish they hadn't done it. The original title sounds so much better. Ah well, the show's going to be awesome.

[redchild]

Absolutely true. The thing that always baffles me is that animation has become become geared towards kids in the west, but that this hasn't happened in countries like Japan. Has anyone ever investigated how and why this development took place?

I can only give some guesses.

Japan has a long history of art that emphasizes aesthetic line quality and graphic design, which I think is why anime has remained so prevalent and popular. The Western world's art tradition is saturated with realism and fidelity to nature. However, Europe also has a strong record of intricate patterns and graphic works, so I doubt it's simply just because Western art tends to be more realistic or that animation cannot thrive in an art environment that prefers realism.

I think it was the huge success of Disney probably led much of the Western world into thinking that animated cartoons are children's fare. When one thinks of animated cartoons, one would probably think "Disney" first and foremost. Rival studios attempted to best Disney at their own game, meaning, they would produce works that are aimed at children. So you've got the majority of studios in the animation industry all competing with each other for the same target audience.

[Albertosaurus Rex]

That could very well be it. I don't believe Disney specifically targeted children (and only children) with its first couple movies, though. Just consider Bambi. people always seem to think of the first half of the movie, but the second half is much more mature.

I visted a friend of mine the other day and he's quite into anime these days. We wound up watching Sword of the Stranger together (In Japanese, with English subtitles_ and I was astounded again. Why can't we do stuff like this in the west? The he showed me an episode of Time of Eve, which I liked, and an episode of Ouran High School, which I found rather... odd.

Then I showed hikm the first episode of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. His comment? "They've made My Little Pony cool!"

Meanwhile, I'm watching more and more of Gargoyles and it's pretty close to what I would imagine a western cartoon for adults to be like. Almost, because sometimes it still has to pull its punches, like when an airship crashes in the water and the crew gets away. In a story for adults, they would have died. Still, one episode a character actually getting shot with a gun and fighting her life in a hospital - how many childrens' cartoons do that?

[Albertosaurus Rex]

I watched the film Fire and Ice (not to be confused with a certain massively popular series by GRRM) yesterday, one of the west's few attempts at an animated fantasy movie for adults, by Ralph Bakshi, the guy behind the animated version of LotR. I was struck by how the movie captiured the essence of the old pulp fantasy tales (Of which the Conan stories are the best known example). It has all the standard fixtures: a barbarian hero, a nubile priness, ape-like savages, jungles teeming with dangerous monsters, ancient cities in ruins and an evil sorceror. However, it's not actually a very good film... And while I can understand having people from barbaric tribes walking around in only loincloths, having the princess of a civilized country walk around in nothing but a string bikini for a whole movie is plain ridiculous.

But I don't want to completely hijack this thread... saw the new episode of Thundercats today and it seems a step down from the series premiere. I'll stick around anyway to see how it all develops. I've also started watching Fringe but I'm not yet completely dold on it. Finally, my dad and I are rewatching Buffy the Vampire Slayer... with my younger brother, who really likes it.

['thul]

These beings keep watching True Blood, and rather enjoy it. Not all the plot lines are perfect, but its quite enjoyable nonetheless.

[Farseer]

And while I can understand having people from barbaric tribes walking around in only loincloths, having the princess of a civilized country walk around in nothing but a string bikini for a whole movie is plain ridiculous.

Quite like hardware ads depicting an almost naked woman standing up a ladder to paint...common sense is often lacking when one needs a little bit of 'wow', be it in a TV show, movie or ad. Funny that some would think that factor was the best aspect though.

Finally, my dad and I are rewatching Buffy the Vampire Slayer... with my younger brother, who really likes it.

I think sharing something you've watched or read is even better than seeing or reading it for the first time, especially so for older shows, movies, books or music that a person of a younger generation to you may not have otherwise been exposed to. TV shows you loved in your youth could sometimes seem a bit lame when you return to them as an adult (eg Monkey Magic, Blake's 7 or The Goodies), but they tend to retain their attraction if you enjoy them with someone who is yet to view them. Well, at least, that's the way it has been for me. How wonderful is it to have them so readily available on DVD these days, so that they can be shared?

So many riches you have to share with your brother, AR. He will love you all the more for them.

Just on animation, I watched Star Wars The Clone Wars with my daughter the other day. I have always loved the Star Wars movies, yes, but I wasn't looking forward to watching The Clone Wars. I don't know why. I happily watch any kind of animation at any other time but for some reason have resisted seeing an animated version of Star Wars. This being the case, I thought I'd watch it with one eye while I folded and ironed clothes at the same time...

...and, of course, didn't do any of the folding or ironing until after the movie had finished, so absorbed was I! I was an Anakin-hater but watching The Clone Wars made me see a softer side of his character...one that I don't think I'd have been ready to find if it had not been presented in animation.

One thing I do like about Disney movies (and Pixar etc) is that they have become increasingly aware of their adult audience. In the first instance this would have mostly consisted of parents of the children who were watching and it has just rippled out from there. There are so many one-liners and references to mature themes that are obviously pitched toward adults, and the children don't get the 'full' picture until they view it again when they're older.

It is quite a jump really from watching Warner Brothers cartoons etc with simple plots and slap-stick comedy as the driving force.

With such a large portion of our society being involved with gaming these days, I'd expect that the gulf between reality and animation will become even narrower as well?

[redchild]

There are so many one-liners and references to mature themes that are obviously pitched toward adults, and the children don't get the 'full' picture until they view it again when they're older.

I actually find this to be true even of older Disney movies. You've got a mother trying to murder her step-daughter in Snow White, domestic abuse in Cinderella, a weird psychedelic trip in Alice in Wonderland, social discrimination in Little Mermaid, Simba as Hamlet in Lion King, etc. It just takes time for it to sink in. While Disney has bastardized many fairy tales in order to retain the company's wholesome image, I still think much of the original story remains intact.

It is quite a jump really from watching Warner Brothers cartoons etc with simple plots and slap-stick comedy as the driving force.

I actually find many of the animated productions at Warner Brothers to have very good writing...well, at least those in the nineties and early 00's (because I'm biased); I don't know how they are now. Looney Tunes, for example, was hardly kid-exclusive fare. The slapstick appeals to kids (though to be honest I never found slapstick that funny as a kid, but I love it now) but the scripts are smart and witty. I'd say the same is true of Anamaniacs and Pinky & the Brain. Their superhero shows are also very good.

With such a large portion of our society being involved with gaming these days, I'd expect that the gulf between reality and animation will become even narrower as well?

There isn't much of a gulf between reality and animation as a lot of the time animation draws from life. However, gaming as a whole, not just animation itself, can blur the lines between reality and fantasy.

But you would rarely find someone who wants to play a game that reminds them too much of reality. The real world does not have futuristic sci-fi cities and space ships or dragons and floating castles, but you can render them to the point that that is what they would look like in real life. Also, nobody wants to remember that being slammed by a battle-axe or armor piercing bullet to the head will kill you instantly, but rather will only damage your avatar -60 health points. While basing a world on reality gives the player a more immersive experience, they still need to be fantastic in order to have any appeal.

Also, many people are mistaken in the notion that mo-cap = realistic animation. It's lazy animation and the results show in dead, lifeless character movements. As I mentioned before, copying reality does not always necessarily yield the best results.

['thul]

Someone should remake Snow White, only using the real fairy tale, not that bastardized version Disney used.

These beings also watch Star Wars The Clone wars. It may be aimed at children, but its very much functional for adults.

[Albertosaurus Rex]

I think the Disney versions of fairy tales are often unfairly maligned. If you compare the original fairytale of Snow White to the Disney movie, you will see that it's actually very close, and some original content is a little creepy to begin with, like the prince impregnating Snow White while she's in a coma??? Many adaptations differ wildly from the original book anyway, it's just that Disney's marketing and merchandising machine is so powerful that it tends to push all awareness of the original story away. As Robin Hobb pointed out on her old site, Bambi was a novel first.

Back to series. Yes, it's a delight sharing things that I love with my father and brother. I hope to one day introduce him to the Battlestar Galactica remake. I think he'll love it, but he's a little too young for it now. Only a few more years, though.

Still watching Fringe. My reaction is mostly to same as the one I had to Alias: it's competently made, but it just doesn't excite me all that much. Ironically, they're both by J. J. Abrams. And in both cases, my dad likes it much more than I do, so I keep watching anyway. I've just ordered the first season boxset of Farscape from Amazon; there doesn't seem to be a Dutch release, not one that's still available anyway. I've been wanting to watch this series for ages now. I can't wait for my DVDs to arrive...