[split] Memories/Forging (spoilers all books incl RWC)

[joost]

Ah, I love this place! This is one of those passages I was actually thinking of (confusing myself with!) in regard to the taking of memories rather than connections ...but that final line seals it. Nice one, joost!

The line before that implies that the memories are taken away forever (or as they found out later: until the stone dragon is 'killed') though.

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Forging is fairly uncontrolled

The white woman partially forged her 'crew', so she seems to have had -some- control over the process.

[NeverBeenWise]

If you give yourself to the stone willingly, it seems you lose both the memory and the emotional connection you have to it. Except for when Fitz put his pain into Girl-on-a-Dragon, I'm still working on that one.
If you hold yourself back from it, as in try to guard your memories, it appears that the stone takes the connection and duplicates the memory itself, leaving you with a copy of the memory, but not the attachment.

This got me thinking about the Skill pillars, because as you recall they're made of the same type of stone. No wonder it's dangerous to use them! Basically, you're throwing your entire being into this giant piece of memory stone. Not just all of your memories, but all of the ways in which you connect to the world, and all the attachment you feel to the world with all of your senses. Then you have to cross your fingers (metaphorically, as you can't really do that when you've given them to the stone!) and hope against hope that it spits you out intact and in a timely fashion on the other side. The reason you can't use the pillar too often is that you need enough time to reattach yourself to the world, otherwise you'll be scattered in the Skill river forever, or some benevolent being will collect the pieces and make you reattach to the world, but with a delay. Or you might leave the pillar without all of your connections.

Eep.

[EverSnow]

If you give yourself to the stone willingly, it seems you lose both the memory and the emotional connection you have to it. Except for when Fitz put his pain into Girl-on-a-Dragon, I'm still working on that one.
If you hold yourself back from it, as in try to guard your memories, it appears that the stone takes the connection and duplicates the memory itself, leaving you with a copy of the memory, but not the attachment.

Hmmm, would you say Verity is holding back when carving his dragon until the very end?
When talking to Fitz he describes his state as "To be able to recall what one once felt, but unable to feel it anymore. My loves, my fears, my sorrows. All have gone into the dragon. Nothing I have held back"

Although clearly he has held back in that he is not absorbed into the dragon at that point.

Given the stone dragon's purpose perhaps they take the emotional memory (how one felt & reacted) but not the factual memory (of what happened).

Would that fit with Fitz and Girl-on-A-Dragon?

[Nuytsia]

I think that most of the references are to the emotional significance of the memories being lost, rather than to the memories themselves being wiped, BUT as pointed out there are some references that SEEM to indicate that memories are either lost or at least harder to recall to mind.
I think that the latter references could be explained by the former, as in reality things that have more emotional impact on us are usually easier to recall vividly in comparison to humdrum occurrences. SO if the emotional impact of a memory is removed we might find it harder to recall it at all.

As I'm currently re-reading LST I was just reading the part where Wintrow and Vivacia are trying to bring Kennit back from the dead and Wintrow says he recognises that Kennit has tried to discard the parts of himself that are painful. If I recall correctly it's later indicated that he HAD put his worst memories (or at least their emotional aspect) into Paragon. (I know we are talking about wizardwood here, not memory stone). BUT it seems Wintrow can still 'see' them (and Kennit as well). So they don't seem 'lost'. I guess I am assuming that they are the SAME memories and I don't know that for sure...

And there's the related issue of what exactly passes from the dead into a liveship to quicken it. (I'm sure we've talked about that?)
I thought it was simply memories, but Vivacia mentions that it is more of the 'essence' of the person I think? (or at least that's what Wintrow says when he touches Kennit's blood on the wizardwood - he feels the 'essence' of who Kennit is)

['thul]

It would seem that contact allows memory transfer, whereas proximity causes connection transfer, or forging.

[joost]

It would seem that contact allows memory transfer, whereas proximity causes connection transfer, or forging.

When the Fool was chained to the dragon in FF, he only got forged when he was forced to touch the dragon.

Perhaps the size of the memory stone plays a part?

['thul]

size might affect things, as would will. no one willingly forges themselves. Nor did the fool wish to give anything up to the pale lady's dragon. Thus the fool only gave up things when forced to do it.