Sep-06-2011, 12:59 AM (UTC)
I did amend the spoiler tag in the thread title but, just in case, there are major spoilers below for TM...
No time to overly elaborate but here's me disagreeing just because it's the 'thul beings (I have found that they are fun to disagree with!
). I have a feeling that I will come to regret it though, and will later have to eat my words!
While all have the ability to create change, I don't believe that Wintrow was ever a catalyst as a replacement for Fitz. To make my thoughts clearer, possibly what I should have said earlier is that all beings have the ability to 'create change' and therefore 'are capable of performing roles like a Catalyst to a certain degree'.
Fitz, despite being stuck in his hut during the LST years, was still the Catalyst. Just as he was still the Catalyst at the end of the TM series, and just as he remained the Catalyst during the RWC. His role doesn't stop just because he is not always directly involved in, or at the forefront of, the storyline. I'm suddenly realising that I've said all of this somewhere before!
Amber/Fool is the White Prophet and Fitz is the Catalyst...and they hold these roles within the entire world, not in just one or two regions. Their role and purpose is to save the world.
Without Fitz, who is to say what would have become of Amber when she fell upon Paragon's deck in Lavoy's presence? He was not there in person, certainly, but by virtue of his Skill-link, he still performed. Even by his absence, he created change. If he had not been stuck in some hut somewhere, and had returned, say, to Molly, then Molly and Burrich would never have had as many children...one of them being Swift who himself held a pivotal role in the later undoing of the Pale Woman. These are just some examples though.
Pilkrop had stuck it out in Aslevjal and awaited the arrival of the WP and the Catalyst (Fool and Fitz), and this was despite the fact that he himself had previously been a White Prophet. The Pale Woman realised, too late, that only Fitz could truly fulfill the role of Catalyst after Kebal Rawbread's failure, and even Fool acknowledged that he should have known that only Fitz could wrought such a change as unbelievable as a resurrection from the dead. Fitz is not only the Catalyst, he is Changer.
This doesn't lessen Wintrow's contribution, of course, nor any other contributions made by every character who created change or performed a catalyst-like role (for good or ill). Like Fitz though, they are also capable of being manipulated into action either by their own needs/desires etc, or the helpful pulling of the WP's strings. Amber did not only seek to use Wintrow to fulfill her role and the needs of the world...she sought to unite the slaves, return Paragon to the sea and so many other things besides. In the end, she achieved many of these things without input from Wintrow at all.
What is of particular interest to me is that Fitz himself had never truly changed. He was ever a true 'Catalyst' in this regard. He pretty much ended as he began, despite the significant change he created along the way (and despite the fact that many Hobb fans didn't like this aspect of him!). I'm not sure the same could be said of Wintrow, or many of the others who created huge change eg Selden, Malta, Patience (who went from appearing to be odd to being seen as 'queenly') etc...but all that's just an added thought.
If Wintrow were meant to be Amber's Catalyst, surely their lives would have collided when they were 'meant' to? Much like how Fool shut his eyes and the pointer fingers of his right and left hands met in the middle in front of his face when Fitz first asked how Fool had found him at the beginning of TM (at least, I think that's what he did!)? Not to mention that Amber would never have been aboard Paragon to save him and the crew when Paragon was burning, and would never have been aboard the Paragon to receive the Rooster Crown when Igrot's hoard was refound. Without this, Fitz could never have returned Fool to the world...
Just my thoughts though, and I'll be back to share more when I can.
No time to overly elaborate but here's me disagreeing just because it's the 'thul beings (I have found that they are fun to disagree with!
). I have a feeling that I will come to regret it though, and will later have to eat my words!While all have the ability to create change, I don't believe that Wintrow was ever a catalyst as a replacement for Fitz. To make my thoughts clearer, possibly what I should have said earlier is that all beings have the ability to 'create change' and therefore 'are capable of performing roles like a Catalyst to a certain degree'.
Fitz, despite being stuck in his hut during the LST years, was still the Catalyst. Just as he was still the Catalyst at the end of the TM series, and just as he remained the Catalyst during the RWC. His role doesn't stop just because he is not always directly involved in, or at the forefront of, the storyline. I'm suddenly realising that I've said all of this somewhere before!
Amber/Fool is the White Prophet and Fitz is the Catalyst...and they hold these roles within the entire world, not in just one or two regions. Their role and purpose is to save the world. Without Fitz, who is to say what would have become of Amber when she fell upon Paragon's deck in Lavoy's presence? He was not there in person, certainly, but by virtue of his Skill-link, he still performed. Even by his absence, he created change. If he had not been stuck in some hut somewhere, and had returned, say, to Molly, then Molly and Burrich would never have had as many children...one of them being Swift who himself held a pivotal role in the later undoing of the Pale Woman. These are just some examples though.
Pilkrop had stuck it out in Aslevjal and awaited the arrival of the WP and the Catalyst (Fool and Fitz), and this was despite the fact that he himself had previously been a White Prophet. The Pale Woman realised, too late, that only Fitz could truly fulfill the role of Catalyst after Kebal Rawbread's failure, and even Fool acknowledged that he should have known that only Fitz could wrought such a change as unbelievable as a resurrection from the dead. Fitz is not only the Catalyst, he is Changer.
This doesn't lessen Wintrow's contribution, of course, nor any other contributions made by every character who created change or performed a catalyst-like role (for good or ill). Like Fitz though, they are also capable of being manipulated into action either by their own needs/desires etc, or the helpful pulling of the WP's strings. Amber did not only seek to use Wintrow to fulfill her role and the needs of the world...she sought to unite the slaves, return Paragon to the sea and so many other things besides. In the end, she achieved many of these things without input from Wintrow at all.
What is of particular interest to me is that Fitz himself had never truly changed. He was ever a true 'Catalyst' in this regard. He pretty much ended as he began, despite the significant change he created along the way (and despite the fact that many Hobb fans didn't like this aspect of him!). I'm not sure the same could be said of Wintrow, or many of the others who created huge change eg Selden, Malta, Patience (who went from appearing to be odd to being seen as 'queenly') etc...but all that's just an added thought.
If Wintrow were meant to be Amber's Catalyst, surely their lives would have collided when they were 'meant' to? Much like how Fool shut his eyes and the pointer fingers of his right and left hands met in the middle in front of his face when Fitz first asked how Fool had found him at the beginning of TM (at least, I think that's what he did!)? Not to mention that Amber would never have been aboard Paragon to save him and the crew when Paragon was burning, and would never have been aboard the Paragon to receive the Rooster Crown when Igrot's hoard was refound. Without this, Fitz could never have returned Fool to the world...
Just my thoughts though, and I'll be back to share more when I can.
"I am the Catalyst, and I came to change all things. Prophets become warriors, dragons hunt as wolves."
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
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