A song of Ice and fire discussion (spoilers incl A Dance with Dragons)

['thul]

Nymeria is most likely the only queen that won't be toppled out there...

she's after all not just leader of a (large) pack... these beings feel that she's essentially the leader of most of the wolves within the seven kingdoms... or at least 4-6 of them... (the kingdoms)

[Farseer]

True, true...and I can't help but wonder (hope?) that Nymeria's position may one day prove prophetic as far as Arya is concerned.

I have some theories to share and questions to ask but this is possibly the most important: I seem to recall it being said here somewhere long ago that GRRM has some ASoIaF-related short stories about the place (similar to RotE). Can anyone please confirm? I'm thinking that there might be something in Legends so will try and dig that out in the meantime...

['thul]

There are indeed short stories...

The ones these beings recall right now are the ones about Egg and Dunk.
main character is a knight known as "ser duncan the tall" and the side character at the core is his squire, commonly called "egg"... of course, that is a nickname... his true name would be Aegon Targaryen, later to be Aegon V Targaryen, alias "aegon the unlikely"...

very good stories...

[Farseer]

I found The Hedge Knight in Legends and immediately recalled a conversation with joost from long ago. I also have Legends II here somewhere...

Oh, you 'thul beings just popped in ...thanks to you beings for that. I also found this info on Wikipedia:

Martin wrote three separate novellas set ninety years before the events of the novels. These novellas are known as the Tales of Dunk and Egg after the main protagonists, Ser Duncan the Tall and his squire "Egg", the later King Aegon V Targaryen. The stories have no direct connection to the plot of A Song of Ice and Fire, although both characters are mentioned in A Storm of Swords and A Feast For Crows, respectively. The first two installments, titled The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword, were published in the 1998 Legends and 2003 Legends II anthologies.They are also available as graphic novels. The third novella, titled The Mystery Knight, was first published in the 2010 anthology Warriors. A fourth novella is to appear in the anthology Dangerous Women after the publication of A Dance with Dragons. The four novellas are planned to be released as one collection afterwards. Up to eight further Dunk and Egg installments are planned.

EDIT: Just realised that I also have Warriors, of course, and so I have all of the novellas except for that which is planned for DW.

['thul]

That is fortunate for you. these beings did not have them all when they started reading them.

[Farseer]

Finally done reading the thread! If only I'd done that first before asking my short story question ^ (the answer for which was a little later on in the thread, of course! ).

I have lots of posts to respond to but, as it's near midnight and I have a huge day ahead, I might start with a couple of simple questions that I can't see that have been asked here previously (maybe because you seasoned ASoIaF readers all know the answers and therefore don't feel the need to clarify/discuss!):

Cersei's champion - Who do you believe he is? I am expecting it's Gregor Clegane/the Mountain due to his size, obvious fighting ability (or else why would Cersei want him as her champion?!...while Loras is likely considered the 'best' knight now, I think it's accepted that he won against Gregor in the tourney through trickery rather than talent and neither Loras, Hound or Jaime would fight on Cersei's behalf?), his having previously been sworn to House Lannister and his vow of silence to keep his identity a secret. Certainly his skull is meant to be in Dorne by that point but I didn't buy it.

The Hound - Do you think he still lives? Maybe the Hound doesn't but Sandor Clegane does, as far as I'm concerned. His helm may have been left as a sentinel to his grave but he was not in that grave.

Cersei's prophecy - Who do you believe is the younger woman? I have no evidence to support it but I instantly felt that it was Sansa and not Dany or Margaery as may be expected/obvious. Some little voice says, "Arya" but, no, Arya is for something else (more tomorrow). It's Sansa. Or not.

Jon's death - Okay, so this has been touched on previously, and I want to talk about it some more later, but I had to ask right now ... do you truly believe he could have died? I didn't believe it at all and even expected the event to happen after Melisandre had told Jon about the "daggers in the dark". The actions of his brothers actually appeared to me to be more about intervention than malice, saving Jon from a vow-breaking act and thus saving the Wall etc...though at least four stabs is harsh coming from friends! Dare I admit that, as I read of Jon's stabbing, I even pictured the scene from Finding Nemo where Bruce the great white shark was prevented from eating Dory by his friends, Anchor and Chum, who held him back while crying, "Intervention!" Whatever the motive/intent of his brothers, Jon can't have died...or died permanently, at least.

So much to chat about...

['thul]

These beings do not believe jon died. or at least not permanently... he wasn't "finished" the way his parents were... too many unanswered questions...

[fool-ish]

Finally done reading the thread! If only I'd done that first before asking my short story question ^ (the answer for which was a little later on in the thread, of course! ).

I have lots of posts to respond to but, as it's near midnight and I have a huge day ahead, I might start with a couple of simple questions that I can't see that have been asked here previously (maybe because you seasoned ASoIaF readers all know the answers and therefore don't feel the need to clarify/discuss!):

Cersei's champion - Who do you believe he is? I am expecting it's Gregor Clegane/the Mountain due to his size, obvious fighting ability (or else why would Cersei want him as her champion?!...while Loras is likely considered the 'best' knight now, I think it's accepted that he won against Gregor in the tourney through trickery rather than talent and neither Loras, Hound or Jaime would fight on Cersei's behalf?), his having previously been sworn to House Lannister and his vow of silence to keep his identity a secret. Certainly his skull is meant to be in Dorne by that point but I didn't buy it.

The Hound - Do you think he still lives? Maybe the Hound doesn't but Sandor Clegane does, as far as I'm concerned. His helm may have been left as a sentinel to his grave but he was not in that grave.

Cersei's prophecy - Who do you believe is the younger woman? I have no evidence to support it but I instantly felt that it was Sansa and not Dany or Margaery as may be expected/obvious. Some little voice says, "Arya" but, no, Arya is for something else (more tomorrow). It's Sansa. Or not.

Jon's death - Okay, so this has been touched on previously, and I want to talk about it some more later, but I had to ask right now ... do you truly believe he could have died? I didn't believe it at all and even expected the event to happen after Melisandre had told Jon about the "daggers in the dark". The actions of his brothers actually appeared to me to be more about intervention than malice, saving Jon from a vow-breaking act and thus saving the Wall etc...though at least four stabs is harsh coming from friends! Dare I admit that, as I read of Jon's stabbing, I even pictured the scene from Finding Nemo where Bruce the great white shark was prevented from eating Dory by his friends, Anchor and Chum, who held him back while crying, "Intervention!" Whatever the motive/intent of his brothers, Jon can't have died...or died permanently, at least.

So much to chat about...

I do believe Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane and that skull in Dorne is not his. That nasty piece of work, Qyburn (I think!) has worked some devilry and produced a monster. Oh and while we're on the subject of Gregor, his duel with the Red Viper was one of the best scenes I've ever read. That mantra about Elia gave me the shivers.

I reckon Sandor is alive on the Quiet Isle and I think he may become part of, if not lead a 'faith' army. One of my crackpot theories is that he may even be Cersei's valonqar...he is a 'little brother' after all.

I agree that Sansa is probably the younger woman. Margaery, I believe will meet a premature end (though I don't know in what manner) and Dany, well I don't quite know what's to become of her, but I don't think she'll be the younger woman.

Now then, Jon's Caesar-like assassination. Yes, intervention rather than an act of malice. They wouldn't have done it without good reason and no better reason than to save the Night's Watch and the Wall. Dead? I don't think so, though nothing GRRM writes will surprise me anymore! That brings me on to that letter. I don't believe Ramsay Bolton (shudders!) penned that letter...another's work methinks

I'm hoping and hoping that Nymeria's role is a massive foreshadowing for Arya's future...everything crossed!

P.S. Frey pies?? This particular twist went right over my head the first time..I was suitably awed when I clocked it on the second read!

[Farseer]

I thought I'd seen something about this around here but maybe not? I'm thinking of buying the Game of Thrones Xbox360 game for one of my sons...anyone here played it?

[Valarya]

Oh gods I can't believe you've finished all 5 books already.

I also can't wait to get to work so I can properly sit down and reply to a ton of stuff you've brought up in this thread as well as direct you to some new amazing theories to look over (specifically concerning Jon Snow's parentage and other Azor Ahai prophecies/theories). !!!!!!!!!!

Just FYI... If I had known you were going to plow through them so quickly (or, for that matter, read them at all haha), I would have suggested you read the 3 short-stories before starting book 5. Even though the short stories are set 100 years in the past.. there are events that foreshadow and hint at things you read in the main story.

In fact.. if you had read the short stories, you would have jumped up in complete surprise/joy when Bran first meets the 3 Eyed Crow because you would have recognized who he was. It's something you can't know unless you've read the short stories. The three-eyed-crow identity is one of those theories I've had for about 8+ years that actually was proven by GRRM in book 5, thankfully. I can only hope he proves some more in the next two books. :\

Look at me.. I have no time to be sitting here writing about this yet here I sit. I'll come back in a couple hours with more!!!!