The Dragon Keeper "Controversial?" Hobb and sexuality. *Major Spoilers up to RWC!

[Farseer]

Yes, that did happen, Nuytsia re Nighteyes.

Also, I loved maulkin's comment here (post #26), and thought it very relevant to the discussion re Fool and Fitz's relationship. The link has major spoilers for the Farseer and Tawny Man books.

[Chrischa]

I interpreted that differently, actually. I thought that Nighteyes meant that he wanted to challenge the Alpha male for leadership, because he was used to being the leader (snigger), but that he didn't do it because he knew that he would eventually return to Fitz, so he wouldn't be with the pack long enough to be a sufficient leader.

Small difference maybe but it is a huge example of how human awareness of the future has altered Nighteyes his thinking.

[Nuytsia]

Ahh interesting! Another thing to watch out for on my re-read!
I had the impression Nighteyes wanted to be with the pack, but I guess he must have had Fitz in his mind as well.
I may well find it's different to my vague recollection when I read it again.

I found the way he was torn between his wolf bonds and his human bond very sad. If Fitz had a settled home rather than moving around so much then Nighteyes may have been able to handle the dual lives more easily. But then again he was in the Cabin for a long period of time and I don't think it was mentioned that he ever joined a pack again - maybe as he couldn't ever really be sure when Fitz might leave and go elsewhere.

[Lady Laura]

Er... lots more Tawny & Farseer spoilers for me here LOL I love it how almost everyone brings those books into discussion in every thread, it reminds me why I should go and read them

I'd like to add some of my feelings on the "controversial" nature of the Rain Wilds Chronicles. Firstly on the point that if feels a bit like Hobb had so many gay characters in order to prove a point, I do agree that I got that impression. However, as someone said earlier, I think she was right to bring up the topic of homosexuality, and to finally have a main gay character in her books. For Hobb to do this, (her being such a prolific and respected writer) is very much a step in the right direction, in terms of representing sexuality in the fantasy genre. And making it acceptable for there to be gays in fantasy books, without the books having to be targetted at a gay audiance. I hope Hobb is beginning to alter people's perception of the inclusion of gay characters in fantasy, because in that genre, I still see a considerable lack of gay characters.

I'd like to randomly mention The Black Magician Trilogy by Trudi Canavan, another fantasy series which includes some gay characters, (I dont want to name who they are, it will ruin the books if you decide to read them ) and it also deals with the homophobia of society in the world of the books. I'd recommend them, although I do think the author was a bit tame in her writing when 2 gay characters formed a relationship... she didnt even show them kissing or anything, it felt like she had different standards for portraying romance between the gay characters than she did for the hetro couples... Anyway, I will not go into a rant about that here

['thul]

It is nice to see authors including such occurrences in the books... Some authors represent such issues in covert ways, and that too works... one example (fairly off topic), is the TV series "True blood" where the issue of homosexual rights is represented in the form of "vampire rights" many of the arguments and such against homosexuality, are simply converted to being against vampires... (i.e. "god hates fags" = "god hates fangs")

In many ways, the fantasy genre is a very classical form, with a prevalence of the "true love", especially in High Fantasy. The act of blurring those edges is very nice, even if 'thul prefers heterosexuality. (in a mild way, if two people of the same gender wishes to mate or whatever, then why stop them?)

There have been other occurrences of semi-homosexuality in the RotE books, but 'thul forgets when exactly (or possibly mix it up with another unnamed series...)

[redchild]

From what I've heard and read, about 3% of the human population is homosexual, or at least, not heterosexual. That means 3 of every 100 people, on average. So in actuality, it would be much more unrealistic to imagine a purely heterosexual society. Sexual orientation can also be seen as a spectrum. Chances are, there is no such thing as purely homosexual or purely heterosexual. Not to forget that there are also people who are asexual or transgender. Non-heterosexual relationships have always existed, it's just that the dominant culture of many countries as of now are still quite condescending towards such "deviant" behaviors, so most people put on airs that they are not "abnormal."

So perhaps it's not so much that non-heterosexual relationships have been kept under wraps, but rather mainstream society does not permit such blatant representations. The 1980s AIDS epidemic brought much attention towards homosexuality, but the attention was negative and homosexuality was seen as a pathology. The later 1990s up to now have shown a much more tolerant and objective attitude towards sexual orientations and behaviors, so writers like Hobb seem to have taken this new opportunity to genuinely explore what they only dared to hint or imply at before.

There have been other occurrences of semi-homosexuality in the RotE books, but 'thul forgets when exactly (or possibly mix it up with another unnamed series...)

Well there were rumors of Althea and Amber having a lesbian affair in LST. The Fool is not heterosexual but may be bisexual, possibly the Pale Woman as well. Kennit had a sexual identity crisis due to the abuse he suffered as a child. And I cannot believe that every sailor (hah, crude generalization here) in the harbor towns all desire women. Satrap Cosgo is in love with himself.

['thul]

It was probably some other series, but these beings have no idea which one...

[Lady Laura]

Yes, I am of the belief that sexuality can be fluid, and is not a stable or fixed part of every single person. I think your points are very valid, redchild And Hobb did put in small insinuations and references to people of varying sexuality in previous books, so its not like she completely ignored it I've read so many fantasy books (and books of other genres) that simply do not deal with a variety of sexuality... and in some books where it does, and has only tiny references to it, it can portray it in a very negative light. I've seen that in a few books now, and it makes me wonder if the author is homophobic, or if they are unaware of the negative portrayal in their books *shrug*

Satrap Cosgo is in love with himself LOL So true!!

[redchild]

I've read so many fantasy books (and books of other genres) that simply do not deal with a variety of sexuality... and in some books where it does, and has only tiny references to it, it can portray it in a very negative light. I've seen that in a few books now, and it makes me wonder if the author is homophobic, or if they are unaware of the negative portrayal in their books *shrug*

It's almost as if if you want to make a villain more evil, make him/her gay. Or a be pedophile. Or have some strange fetish. Or a combination of these.

[Lady Laura]

So true I dont like to generalise, but is usually in books by male authors where I see that the most... *not generalising, just making an observation*