The Dragon Keeper "Controversial?" Hobb and sexuality. *Major Spoilers up to RWC!

[hobblover]

Warning - This has major spoilers in it!



I have recently read a review of the book that says that Hobb has 'attempted' to be contraversial (in regards to an issue of sexuality). I can only assume that the author of this review is referring to the relationship between Hest and Sedric, or is it the marriage between Hest and Alise that is contraversial?

I find the Hobb's writing on the issue of homosexuality amazing. The relationship between the ambiguous Fool and Fitz, Lord Golden's dallyings with men, and now the relationship between Hest and Sedric were all written brilliantly, at times with a remarkable accuracy to real life relationships.

Being a gay male myself, I found myself parallelling the relationship between the Fool and Fitz to my relationship with my best male friend. Some may say that the Fool wasn't gay, but I like to change his (or her) role in Fitz's life every time I read the book.

Likewise, I found a relationship that I have previously been in mirroring that of Hest and Sedric's. I found it amusing to think that people saw the encounter between Hest and Sedric as 'rape'. Personally, I interpreted it as Hest meeting his first 'bad boy' and being completely smitten with him.

Other forum members have commented on the idea that Hobb is homophobic; however, being a gay guy who loves fantasy, I am delighted that Hobb incorporates gay characters within her texts in such a teriffic way. As soon as Sedric said "No, he hasn't been with any women..." I was really excited to read on to discover if Hest and Sedric were in a relationship. It was brilliantly done. I am even more interested to discover how Sedric's and Hest's characters will be played out.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this issue?

Thanks for reading :

Mervi fixed the typo in the header.

Mervi edited the header to warn of spoilers about the other RotE books as well.

[Sage]

I just finished reading The Dragon Keeper yesterday (and I'm already dreading the next loooong months before Daven Haven is realised!!! ), I found the way she approached the relationship between Hest and Sedric wonderful! Leaving it up to the reader's interpretation for quite a while till the memories Sedric had. I thought it was great, personally. Both Hest's relationship with Alise and Sedric are pretty controversial. Gay relationships will likely still be seen as such for a while to come, sadly, especially in mainstream books/movies, and well.. his relationship with Alise is anything but normal.

When the hunters boarded the Tarmen and Leftrin warned one the youngest of the bunch (forget his name) not to touch his young deckhand girl, they seemed to find the notion amusing? I wondered if that might mean there's a possible new love interest for Sedric on the way : Hest is a bit of a jerk, in my opinion, I hope they both ditch him and find the kind of loving relationships they both deserve.

Who doesn't want a happy ending?

Hurry up March!

[hobblover]

Thanks for your reply, Sage

Yes, I do think a relationship between Sedric and the hunter Davvie is definitely on the cards. I agree with you that Carson's remark on "having nothing to worry about in that regard" in reference to Davvie mistreating Alise may indeed be hinting that there is more to Davvie then meets the eye. Perhaps that is why Davvie jumped to the ladder to help Sedric climb on board.

I also think there may even be a part where Sedric or Alise mistakes Davvie for a girl? I remember seeing something earlier but I can't find it now. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Any other thoughts on this would be appreciated. I can't wait for the next book!

[Mervi]

I'd like to bump this this thread up in case people want to continue talking about this theme now that the second volume is out.

WARNING! SPOILERS FOR DRAGON HAVEN BELOW THIS POST.

Spoiler

If there are still people out there that think Hobb is homophobic because her gay characters are ~evil~ they can be hit in the head with Dragon Haven. *snorts*

I think I had totally missed the Davvie bits in the first volume.

(No need to hide spoilers further in this thread I think, I just wanted to make sure noone wandering here unwarned would read that accidentally.)

[miklc]

Spoilers for haven, kind of.

There was... a disproportionate amount of gay relationships? Haha, i just mean that for the size of the party and the available pairings. I loved the main one anyway.

[chriSchaeffer]

During the Rain Wild Chronicles I found myself torn between my Christian beliefs and the emotional connection I felt with the gay characters. However, I've come to a happy conclusion...

Why would I have a problem reading about gay relationships when I am willing to read about murderers and rapists and have no conflict about it? The Bible is clear that no sin is greater than any other sin, so I only assume that my calloused mind has a tolerance for murder whereas homosexuality is a problem... That's hypocritical of me.

So with that, I want to take back any complaints I've ever made about the gay characters in Hobb's books. After all, who am I to judge FICTIONAL characters. That's ridiculous.

[maulkin]

There was... a disproportionate amount of gay relationships? Haha, i just mean that for the size of the party and the available pairings.

The same was true of my last workplace. If you take a small sample of people then they are unlikely to reflect the population at large in every respect.

[SweetFool]

Spoilers for haven, kind of.

There was... a disproportionate amount of gay relationships? Haha, i just mean that for the size of the party and the available pairings. I loved the main one anyway.

I agree with miklc. To be honest i didnt really enjoy the rain wilds chronicles, in the earlier series i loved the relationship between fitz and the fool. I thought that the hest, sedric, alise triangle was interesting too and added to the books, but I kind of felt that Hobb was just throwing a load of gay characters into the rain wilds chronicles just for the sake of makeing a point rather than because it suited the story or added to the plot?

[maulkin]

The thing about the relationship between Beloved and Fitz was that it remained unrequited and unconsummated. While I have no problem with this, I can see why Hobb wanted to include a physical, sexual relationship between two men in a subsequent story. Otherwise, she might have been accused of cowardice. Maybe this "making a point" but it is a point worth making, in my opinion.

As for the number of gay characters in the Kelsingra expedition, there were four: Sedric, Davvie, Carson and one of the keepers (whose name I can't remember off the top of my head). Davvie was brought along by Carson because he was gay. Carson found himself in the position of a loner with no family and few ties to society also because he was gay. Sedric found himself accompanying Alise to Kelsingra as a result of his relationship with Hest i.e. because he was gay. The only character who just happened to be gay was the keeper and in his case, it is not clear that he was exclusively homosexual. He might have been bisexual and just happened to fall for Davvie, rather than one of the female characters. Hobb chose to make homosexuality a theme of this story and included several gay characters to play out that theme. As I mentioned before, although the ratio of gay:straight characters is high, I do not find it unrealistically high. I have found myself in groups just as small and containing just as many gay people.

[Farseer]

The thing about the relationship between Beloved and Fitz was that it remained unrequited and unconsummated. While I have no problem with this, I can see why Hobb wanted to include a physical, sexual relationship between two men in a subsequent story. Otherwise, she might have been accused of cowardice. Maybe this "making a point" but it is a point worth making, in my opinion.

Well said, maulkin !

As for the number of gay characters in the Kelsingra expedition, there were four: Sedric, Davvie, Carson and one of the keepers (whose name I can't remember off the top of my head). Davvie was brought along by Carson because he was gay. Carson found himself in the position of a loner with no family and few ties to society also because he was gay. Sedric found himself accompanying Alise to Kelsingra as a result of his relationship with Hest i.e. because he was gay. The only character who just happened to be gay was the keeper and in his case, it is not clear that he was exclusively homosexual. He might have been bisexual and just happened to fall for Davvie, rather than one of the female characters. Hobb chose to make homosexuality a theme of this story and included several gay characters to play out that theme.

I agree with this (and do so even on the basis that, during the reading of RWC, I also had to confront my own beliefs and principles on the issue of homosexuality in a way in which I did not have to with Fool and Fitz). As an aside, while it could be said that even * spoiler Liveship Traders *

Spoiler

Kennit had desired or considered a homosexual relationship with Wintrow, and eventually acted out this desire with the raping of Althea, I would say that Kennit's issue was most likely more about the cycle of violence, sexual abuse and eventually even incest, rather than that of homosexuality?

I think it may also be important to remember that most of these gay characters were citizens of Chalced (at least, I believe they were?!). At the very least they had an interest of sorts in the Chalcedian way of life, and, as with the citizens of Jamaillia, they most likely held to different social standards than those adhered to by the majority of citizens residing elsewhere in the RotE, as we know it? In this, I believe that their inclusion in the plot gave us yet another small glimpse of the mysterious Chalced!

What I found particularly interesting was the lack of opinion on homosexuality from Sedric and Carson's dragons...