Emotions in the Elderling Realm (SPOILERS all books)

[Farseer]

Cried into your pillow when Nighteyes died ? Ranted at Kyle's nastiness ? Steamed up during the sex scenes ? Plotted revenge for Regal along with Fitz ? Proud of the dragons and their keepers for making it to Kelsingra ?

What got YOUR emotions surging?

[RZ]

The death of Nighteyes certainly left me feeling terrible, even though the way he departed took the sting out of the loss. But it was even more heart-wrenching when Kettricken and Fitz cried together over it. I swear I could feel the tears pricking my eyes...

Kyle and Torg's treatment of Wintrow was terrible too. The disgust I felt when he struck his son unconscious was eclipsed only by what I felt when they tattooed Wintrow's face. I never did forgive Kyle for that. Even when Kyle returned as a weak and pitiful creature, I just couldn't get past my grudge for what he'd done in the past.

I honestly wanted to push Galen off of the tower-top every time he lashed someone with that little quirt of his. And when he beat Fitz? Ugh. Total hatred for that man.

Kennit. Oh, Kennit... He's my absolute favourite character. I smiled to myself every time his luck came through, and things went in his favour. I knew he was a rascal, but I still loved everything he did... up until the end. His assault of Althea, his dismissal of Etta... it was a bitter pill to swallow. I kept wishing for his sake that he hadn't done it!

Man, there's so many more. I could keep listing my feelings for each character for pages and pages! That's what I love about these books. :)

[Chrischa]

When my boyfriend walks in the room and sees me sobbing over a book, he'll automatically assume that it's book three of the Tawny Man trilogy and Nighteyes has just died. So yeah, I do tend to get a bit emotional over that.

Other then that I certainly experience other emotions when reading books in general but nothing so bad as that bit.

Torg, imo, is just an **shole. Nuf said. Kyle, on the other hand, is the end-product of generations of misogyny (the hatred and contempt for woman) in a Patriarch, macho society. Despite the fact that he is also not the most gentle and understanding of people, I don't think he could have done any more then he has. I think that he would actually think of himself as very mild towards woman (compared to his native countryman, he certainly seems to realise that he lives in a society which regards woman differently) and that he honestly tries to understand them. But out of his upbringing he doesn't see family members with a right to their own lives and opinions, he sees roles. And anyone unwilling to fit into these roles will either be submitted to them by force, or be cast out.

I think we, as woman, can count ourselves very, very fortunate that today we can live the respected lives we live. It only took fifty years of feminism to change over 20.000 years of Patriarchy and thought I acknowlegde we aren't there yet by far, that is in itself a huge achievement.

But I am again drifting off. Ahum... so yes, while I certainly felt anger towards Kyle for the things he does, it also was more directed towards a society which can harbour such views, rather then towards the character itself.

I think both Galen and Kennit are masterpieces of character creation. Galen is a product of self-hatred and frustrated ambitions and a forced way of life (by which I mean being forced to adore Chivalry through the Skill). Kennit is an empty shell and throughout the entire books, he never really does anything for anyone else but himself. But the other people around him see him through their own feelings of empathy, and they never realise just how completely broken he is. That is until he does something which is unforgivable, which cannot be talked right.
I love the way his charm sees right through him and keeps on telling him that he doesn't deserve the loyalty of those closest to him.

And one other feeling I have when reading those books is that every now and then, I want to reach in and shake Fitz for being so thick sometimes!

[Nuytsia]

I'm too scared to start writing about this topic .... no crying !!!!!!
On the Nighteyes thing, I was really disturbed at the scene where Fitz brings him back from the dead at the creek. It was so clearly the last thing he wanted ..... and felt so unnatural when you considered it through Nighteyes' eyes.

[Lord Punctual]

I was always a big fan of Kennit. I guess a little bit of me thought that maybe things might work out for him, and he might be redeemed. That is, until what happened with Althea. I remember thinking "No, Kennit, no, you can't do this!" because it was so utterly inexcusable. In fantasy books at least, although murder is often justifiable or excusable, rape never is. I knew that when it crossed that line, as a character he had passed a point of no return, from possible antihero to plain ol' villain. It made me sad.

I agree with the assessment of Kyle as actually pretty moderate by Chalcedean standards. I especially liked the part at the very beginning of LST after he and Althea disembarked from Vivacia, and he was discussing her change in behaviour with Keffria. He thinks that she has finally begun to "shape up" and assume her proper role in the family by obeying him. He is actually very proud of her for this. He wanted what he thought was the best for the members of his family. Although his iews are radically different from our modern ones, one has to admire him at least a little bit for constantly working for the benefit of his family.

(I should also point out that I think his treatment of Althea, in Ship of Magic, is actually almost reasonable. Althea has never actually worked for her living on a ship. She has contributed to the running of the ship if and when she felt like it, and was mostly allowed to be onboard because Ephron Vestrit did not have a surviving son. Even by Bingtown standards, her mannish behaviour is rather aberrant, as indicated by Malta's opinions of her. I know that if I were the captain of a ship, I would not take kindly to what basically amounted to a passenger constantly questioning my authority in front of my crew.

There are also quite a few things from the Tawny Man trilogy (which I actually read first) that got to me. Like when Fitz found Lord Golden's skin. Poor Fitz.

[Farseer]

Like when Fitz found Lord Golden's skin. Poor Fitz.

Can you please expand on this, Lord Punctual?

[Farseer]

But it was even more heart-wrenching when Kettricken and Fitz cried together over it. I swear I could feel the tears pricking my eyes...

I agree, RZ! For me it's not so much when Nighteyes dies but when Fitz and Kettricken go to pieces over it, though tears don't only prick my eyes...they come out and down in a TORRENT!! I'm with Chrischa on that part - it doesn't matter if it's during a whole re-read or just a pick-up-and-read-from-anywhere-I-open-the-book moment, I SOB , and never quietly!!! I also get very teary when Verity goes into his dragon (for him, for Fitz and for Kettricken).

Kyle, on the other hand, is the end-product of generations of misogyny (the hatred and contempt for woman) in a Patriarch, macho society. Despite the fact that he is also not the most gentle and understanding of people, I don't think he could have done any more then he has.

You are so much more understanding of human nature than I could ever be, and I can’t believe you (and now Lord Punctual!) have somehow managed to turn my very negative thoughts on Kyle so askew but, of course, you are both so right! Just as Fitz can’t really be expected to “go against his nature” I suppose neither can Kyle, or ANYONE else, for that matter (including the Others as LP brought up in the Elderling Creations Theory thread).

Still, there have been so many inexcusable atrocities committed in our history, so many still committed every day, by those not interested in even trying to change their nature...who get away with these things because they "are what they are" and/or "who they are"...sure gets you thinking!!

[Lord Punctual]

I'd be happy to elaborate - but first I want to reread that part of Fool's Fate to be sure I'm remembering things correctly. The Tawny Man was actually the first trilogy that I read, so it was a while ago. I'm pretty sure I reread it before I read RWC, but you know how it is.

About the whole idea of a person's nature as not being something he or she can change, I've always been a little bit enamoured of the fable of the Fox and the Scorpion. If you're not familiar with it, it goes like this:

A scorpion needs to cross a river, but he cannot swim. When a fox passes by. he asks, "will you carry me across the river on your back?" At first, the fox refuses, saying, "No, if I let you ride on my back, you will sting me." The scorpion retorts, "I won't sting you. If you drown, so will I."

So, the fox agrees to carry the scorpion across the river on his back. Halfway across, the scorpion stings the fox. As the fox begins to sink, he asks, "Why did you do that? Now we will both drown." And the scorpion answers, "I couldn't help it. I'm a scorpion."

....Just thought I'd share that.

[Farseer]

but you know how it is.

I sure do !!

Just thought I'd share that.

Oh, no, now you've gone and done it! On the basis of that fable, I am now going to have to forgive every transgression ever commited against me, and all those yet to come...AND I will have to reassess my opinion of every character and feeling I have had since reading the RotE books! And here was I, so enjoying hating Regal, Kennit, Malta, Greft... !!!

[Lord Punctual]

You place Malta in the same list as Kennit, Greft and Regal? Wow, you really didn't like her, did you?