Nov-03-2011, 04:42 AM (UTC)
(This post was last modified: Nov-03-2011, 05:25 AM (UTC) by Valarya.)
SoIaF is my most-favorite thing to discuss. Well, it was until one of my good friends finally read RotE and I found these boards, in which case Elderlings & the Fool have replaces Targaryens and Jon Snow for now.
What are the rules on spoilers here? Do we assume since it's months after the latest book has been released that people have read it?
Be warned. By clicking the spoiler tag below you are consenting to sitting in front of your computer for at least 10 minutes. It's a wall of text in there.
I do wonder what Mel is up to.. for 3+ books you assume she is 100% behind Stannis's claim to being Azor Ahai and staying faithful and true to him due to that.. yet in ADWD we see her deceiving Stannis by keeping Mance Rayder alive. SHE's the one who wanted King's blood in the first place. I do love that whenever she tries to see Stannis in the fires (Azor Ahai) she sees 'snow.' Or Snow.
There are many theories floating around that Jon, not Dany, will become Azor Ahai. In the scene where he is stabbed, it is mentioned that he sees a red star on the lapel of someone's coat.. one of his Brothers is crying over him (salt), and his wound is smoking as he falls. Red comet, born of salt and smoke. Eh? I'm not sure if I fall for it because where are his dragons? Dany closely fits the whole AA prophecy but I really can't wait to see where Martin goes with that. Maybe he'll pull a Fitz and have Jon warg in to Ghost to preserve his life, being brought back WHOLE by Melisandre ala Thoros of Myr style, now all his oaths to the NW void through death. Soo juicy.
Mm, you finally realize that Theon has that classic daddy syndrome. Stolen from one father, never taken with a loving hand, then disdained upon his return. Everything that has motivated him for the past 10 years led him to cruel acts in search of acceptance and recognition. I believe Theon was always "good" deep down inside. If only Eddard had treated him more like a son..
It was heart-wrenching reading those Reek chapters but I will say, they were my favorite of the whole book!
I'm going to assume none of you have read the Dunk & Egg short stories. That 2nd Bran chapter when he finally finds the Three-Eyed crow and it's effing BLOODRAVEN!!!!!!!!? That was one of the greatest moments of the entire book. I've had a theory that Coldhands was Bloodraven for about 8 years, now... but I was close, lol. A long-lost Targaryen.. at the Wall.. fighting the real battle and living amongst the CotF as the ultimate greenseer. Yes yes and yes. A thousand eyes and one.
If you guys haven't read the Dunk & Egg short-stories, do it now. Maester Aemon's little brother Egg (King Aegon the Unlikely) as a pre-teen, traipsing around Westeros with Ser Duncan the Tall 100 years prior to events in the main series. Martin puts a lot of little hints in those short-stories.. so if he publishes more (I think a 4th one is in the works) read it as it's released.
About Osha + Rickon.. we know where they are, now. Remember? Wex was with the Manderly's and spoke to Davos about it. They never say the name, exactly.. but it's pretty much known. Skaagos. And Davos is going to rescue them.
1. The Lannisters are basically in ruin. I doubt VERY much Varys is concerned with bringing them back to power at all. Here, in the epilogue, we learn that Varys isn't playing for the realm.. of course not. He's playing for the Targaryens. My question is this: why spend all those years and all that effort with Illyrio to keep Dany/Viserys alive, dangling mention of them before King Robert, only to swoop in with Aegon on the sidelines?? The moment Quaithe told Dany about the "mummer's dragon" I knew she was talking about Aegon.. but while several people feel he's a "fake dragon," or not the real Aegon, I but think he is the mummer's (Varys's) dragon. Varys is the greatest mummer we know, is he not? What better ploy than to dangle bait whilst slipping the real prize in unannounced.
2. Sansa is in Littlefingers game and no one else's. As much as I hate the girl, I'm quite interested to see what path Martin will put her on in this next book.
3. Believe that Qyburn made a zombie. There's a chapter in the 1st book where Bran is having a crow-dream. He sees several people in this dream who are easily identifiable by book 2 (I wish I had the quote in front of me. I'll find it..). But the 3rd person he sees is a giant knight with a face in shadow. There he is. Zombie Gregor.. foretold from book
Having Drogo's old Khal find Dany in the grass w/ a dragon, eating the flesh of a horse, will definitely convince him she's worthy of being followed. I think this also fulfills the old prophecy that she must go back in order to go forward, yes?
I too believe Ramsay's letter is misleading. Surely he has Mance else how would he know of him? I know the battle for Winterfell between his father's troops & Stannis has not taken place, yet. He just laid the cards out on the table.
OR Jon laid them out on the table to provoke the NW to move. There's a major theory floating around that Jon could never decide to abandon the Wall for the sake of Winterfell. He didn't do it when it was handed to him on a plate.. why would the words of Ramsay sway him? We shall see...
Of course he is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. It is known.
Martin often refers to childbirth in his series as a bed of blood. Remember the Tower of Joy scene when Ned is remembering back to that day he and Howland Reed killed Ser Gerold Hightower & Ser Arthur Dayne? Guarding the very tower Lyanna is in? Riddle me this... if King Aerys is having his city plundered and his throat slashed, and Prince Rhaegar is off at the Trident being killed by Baratheon, why is it three of the Kingsguard are here at this Tower guarding Lyanna Stark? Is it because Rhaegar was in love with the theory of the Prince that was Promised? His whose was the song of ice and fire? He who riddled with his great-great-uncle Maester Aemon about the prophecy his entire life, then crowned Lyanna the queen of love and beauty at the Tourney of the Spring? And impregnated her. Oh yes.
Lyanna was in her bed of blood giving birth to a child. The child of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen). And Promise me, Ned was a plea that he never ever tell Robert Baratheon that the child is a Targaryen. And Ned promised. Ned.. who is so honorable he can't get the stick out of his own arse? Ned, who has never gone back on his word? Ned.. who would NEVER sleep with another woman after having given his word in marriage.
Someday Jon might ride a dragon.. or warg in to a dragon. Someday he'll know his heritage.
Ah, but Jon was born out of wedlock.. so even though I believe it to be true, he's still a bastard.
It has been foreshadowed from the very 2nd chapter of the first book that Tyrion would someday meet Dany and assist her with her dragons. He knows more about dragons than any other living man. He also builds special saddles.
Once again, go and read the short-stories. For a Targaryen to be the one-out-of-a-million who becomes a true greenseer grand enough to join the weirwood means warging magic isn't, in fact, exclusive to the North.
I tend to not put much stock in the prophecies of Mirri Maz Duur. Besides, I believe Dany mentioned getting her moonsblood in her last chapter. However I wouldn't put it past Martin to have Dany show up in the end to save the realm from the Others then tragically die before every taking up her throne. He has said it will be bittersweet.
What are the rules on spoilers here? Do we assume since it's months after the latest book has been released that people have read it?
Be warned. By clicking the spoiler tag below you are consenting to sitting in front of your computer for at least 10 minutes. It's a wall of text in there.
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
MAJOR SPOILERS(Aug-01-2011, 02:39 AM (UTC))redchild Wrote: I DID NOT see it coming in regards to the assassination attempt on Jon. It did seem as though things might be turning around, but with the short-sightedness of the anti-wildling faction of the Night's Watch, and the slavers kidnapping wildlings in Hardhome, it doesn't seem as if Jon can do it himself. I'm still perplexed about Melisandre. Does she know what she's doing or what?
I do wonder what Mel is up to.. for 3+ books you assume she is 100% behind Stannis's claim to being Azor Ahai and staying faithful and true to him due to that.. yet in ADWD we see her deceiving Stannis by keeping Mance Rayder alive. SHE's the one who wanted King's blood in the first place. I do love that whenever she tries to see Stannis in the fires (Azor Ahai) she sees 'snow.' Or Snow.
There are many theories floating around that Jon, not Dany, will become Azor Ahai. In the scene where he is stabbed, it is mentioned that he sees a red star on the lapel of someone's coat.. one of his Brothers is crying over him (salt), and his wound is smoking as he falls. Red comet, born of salt and smoke. Eh? I'm not sure if I fall for it because where are his dragons? Dany closely fits the whole AA prophecy but I really can't wait to see where Martin goes with that. Maybe he'll pull a Fitz and have Jon warg in to Ghost to preserve his life, being brought back WHOLE by Melisandre ala Thoros of Myr style, now all his oaths to the NW void through death. Soo juicy.
(Aug-01-2011, 02:39 AM (UTC))redchild Wrote: Theon was also quite a surprise. But his character is fleshed out even more this time and now there's a clearer picture of what motivated his treachery, which is kind of ironic, in hindsight.
Mm, you finally realize that Theon has that classic daddy syndrome. Stolen from one father, never taken with a loving hand, then disdained upon his return. Everything that has motivated him for the past 10 years led him to cruel acts in search of acceptance and recognition. I believe Theon was always "good" deep down inside. If only Eddard had treated him more like a son..
It was heart-wrenching reading those Reek chapters but I will say, they were my favorite of the whole book!
(Aug-01-2011, 02:39 AM (UTC))redchild Wrote: Bran's storyline was short, but now that he has the abilities of a greenseer, anything can happen. I still wish I knew what happened to Osha and Rickon.
I'm going to assume none of you have read the Dunk & Egg short stories. That 2nd Bran chapter when he finally finds the Three-Eyed crow and it's effing BLOODRAVEN!!!!!!!!? That was one of the greatest moments of the entire book. I've had a theory that Coldhands was Bloodraven for about 8 years, now... but I was close, lol. A long-lost Targaryen.. at the Wall.. fighting the real battle and living amongst the CotF as the ultimate greenseer. Yes yes and yes. A thousand eyes and one.
If you guys haven't read the Dunk & Egg short-stories, do it now. Maester Aemon's little brother Egg (King Aegon the Unlikely) as a pre-teen, traipsing around Westeros with Ser Duncan the Tall 100 years prior to events in the main series. Martin puts a lot of little hints in those short-stories.. so if he publishes more (I think a 4th one is in the works) read it as it's released.
About Osha + Rickon.. we know where they are, now. Remember? Wex was with the Manderly's and spoke to Davos about it. They never say the name, exactly.. but it's pretty much known. Skaagos. And Davos is going to rescue them.
(Aug-01-2011, 02:39 AM (UTC))redchild Wrote: Cersei seems to have lost her fire in the end, though I think Varys is going to maneuver to put her back in power of some form. I don't think she will act according to his plans anymore, though. Sansa and Margaery are also still in the game.
And I can't believe Qyburn made a zombie
1. The Lannisters are basically in ruin. I doubt VERY much Varys is concerned with bringing them back to power at all. Here, in the epilogue, we learn that Varys isn't playing for the realm.. of course not. He's playing for the Targaryens. My question is this: why spend all those years and all that effort with Illyrio to keep Dany/Viserys alive, dangling mention of them before King Robert, only to swoop in with Aegon on the sidelines?? The moment Quaithe told Dany about the "mummer's dragon" I knew she was talking about Aegon.. but while several people feel he's a "fake dragon," or not the real Aegon, I but think he is the mummer's (Varys's) dragon. Varys is the greatest mummer we know, is he not? What better ploy than to dangle bait whilst slipping the real prize in unannounced.
2. Sansa is in Littlefingers game and no one else's. As much as I hate the girl, I'm quite interested to see what path Martin will put her on in this next book.
3. Believe that Qyburn made a zombie. There's a chapter in the 1st book where Bran is having a crow-dream. He sees several people in this dream who are easily identifiable by book 2 (I wish I had the quote in front of me. I'll find it..). But the 3rd person he sees is a giant knight with a face in shadow. There he is. Zombie Gregor.. foretold from book
(Aug-05-2011, 10:50 PM (UTC))thul Wrote: These beings suspect that the presence of Drogon with Daenerys may convince a certain Khal that serving her is a very good idea. Just imagine a Dothraki horde attacking a city, only to have the prepared defenders lit on fire from above...
Having Drogo's old Khal find Dany in the grass w/ a dragon, eating the flesh of a horse, will definitely convince him she's worthy of being followed. I think this also fulfills the old prophecy that she must go back in order to go forward, yes?
(Aug-05-2011, 10:50 PM (UTC))thul Wrote: Ramsay appears to have tried a ploy beyond his knowledge. He claimed to have slain Stannis and lost his bride, yet the reader knows that the bride is in the same camp as Stannis. As for whether he has Mance, that is likely, yet how would he know for sure it were Mance?
I too believe Ramsay's letter is misleading. Surely he has Mance else how would he know of him? I know the battle for Winterfell between his father's troops & Stannis has not taken place, yet. He just laid the cards out on the table.
OR Jon laid them out on the table to provoke the NW to move. There's a major theory floating around that Jon could never decide to abandon the Wall for the sake of Winterfell. He didn't do it when it was handed to him on a plate.. why would the words of Ramsay sway him? We shall see...
(Aug-14-2011, 06:46 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: Have any of you pondered more about Jon Snow's parentage? Could it be that he is not truly a son of Eddard Stark?
Might it be that he is instead a Son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen?
Of course he is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. It is known.
Martin often refers to childbirth in his series as a bed of blood. Remember the Tower of Joy scene when Ned is remembering back to that day he and Howland Reed killed Ser Gerold Hightower & Ser Arthur Dayne? Guarding the very tower Lyanna is in? Riddle me this... if King Aerys is having his city plundered and his throat slashed, and Prince Rhaegar is off at the Trident being killed by Baratheon, why is it three of the Kingsguard are here at this Tower guarding Lyanna Stark? Is it because Rhaegar was in love with the theory of the Prince that was Promised? His whose was the song of ice and fire? He who riddled with his great-great-uncle Maester Aemon about the prophecy his entire life, then crowned Lyanna the queen of love and beauty at the Tourney of the Spring? And impregnated her. Oh yes.
Lyanna was in her bed of blood giving birth to a child. The child of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen). And Promise me, Ned was a plea that he never ever tell Robert Baratheon that the child is a Targaryen. And Ned promised. Ned.. who is so honorable he can't get the stick out of his own arse? Ned, who has never gone back on his word? Ned.. who would NEVER sleep with another woman after having given his word in marriage.
Someday Jon might ride a dragon.. or warg in to a dragon. Someday he'll know his heritage.
(Aug-05-2011, 10:50 PM (UTC))thul Wrote: Should the birthright described above be true, even Daenerys claim to the throne will be false, since she's not in the direct line of eldest children.
Ah, but Jon was born out of wedlock.. so even though I believe it to be true, he's still a bastard.
(Aug-15-2011, 08:20 AM (UTC))thul Wrote: These beings doubt that any of Tyrion or Jorah Mormont will manage to hook Dany. Tyrion is actually fairly old, has a rather visible nasty streak and is treacherous.
The fact that Tyrion is also officially married does not help him. Tyrion might succeed as an advisor, but not much more.
It has been foreshadowed from the very 2nd chapter of the first book that Tyrion would someday meet Dany and assist her with her dragons. He knows more about dragons than any other living man. He also builds special saddles.
(Aug-15-2011, 10:18 AM (UTC))redchild Wrote: Good point on Jon's warg abilities. I don't think even Dany can do that. Warg magic origins seem exclusive to the north.
Once again, go and read the short-stories. For a Targaryen to be the one-out-of-a-million who becomes a true greenseer grand enough to join the weirwood means warging magic isn't, in fact, exclusive to the North.
(Aug-15-2011, 10:18 AM (UTC))redchild Wrote: Another problem in suitors pursuing Dany is the fact that she is infertile. Those trying to win the throne will not likely be able to sire a legitimate heir. I don't think the dragons can repopulate either. As I know it, all three are male. It seems with Dany and her dragons, they are the end of their line.
I tend to not put much stock in the prophecies of Mirri Maz Duur. Besides, I believe Dany mentioned getting her moonsblood in her last chapter. However I wouldn't put it past Martin to have Dany show up in the end to save the realm from the Others then tragically die before every taking up her throne. He has said it will be bittersweet.
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“Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. As names have power, words have power. Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts.” ~Patrick Rothfuss in The Name of the Wind
“Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. As names have power, words have power. Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts.” ~Patrick Rothfuss in The Name of the Wind
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