*spoilers all books* Dragon Haven, Enjoy it? Hate it?

[joost]

The names of the dragons for Boxter and Kase aren't mentioned, as far as I could see (only something like 'The two orange dragons of Boxter and Kase were as likeminded as the brothers'). I can't remember seeing the name Tinder either. Lecter is probably named as keeper for Sestican somewhere, but my speedreading for names missed that. Baliper isn't given a name until the second book (when Warken dies). Was Carson's last name given in the book(s)? I did find Jess' last name in one of the pigeon notes though (It's Torkef).

[Unspoilered since this is the DH topic, not the DK topic]

[Lord Punctual]

I don't believe that the silver Skill-water is responsible for the acidic nature of the Rain Wild River. When Tarman runs aground at the junction of the Rain Wild River,of the two forks in the river, one is described as being wide, milky white, and clearly the source of the flood. This river is clearly the source of the acid in the river, and all of the characters, (except Tarman) believe that this is the Rain Wild River. I think that the acid in the water can be chalked up to regular volcanic activity. In volcanically active zones, sulfury (not a scientific term) gasses rising through ground water combine to form sulfuric acid ib the water, which gives the water a milky appearance. Also, it makes the water, you know, burny.

On the other hand, the other river is more shallow, clear, fresh, and full of life. Thymara is amazed to see frogs swimming in the water, because frogs, being thin-skinned amphibians, can't abide the corrosive water. When they travel up the river, the encounter more "normal" wildlife like frogs, small birds, and minnows, and the flora includes fragille things like rushes that don't grow in the rain Wild River. The dragons, although certainly not happy about spending all day and night standing in water, don't suffer the split claws and softening scales that they did in the main river. If this river were acidic, I don't think they would have survived. Even Tintaglia found that the water irritated her scales after brief exposure. Of course, the river was running more strongly white, then, after the earth quake that collapsed Frengong.

I do think that the silver water is responsible for the strangeness of the Rain Wilds. Here's how I think it works.

I think that the disaster that killed the Elderlings was period of geological turmoil. I think that the missing chunk of Kelsingra abruptly subsided. The silver water underlies, and is heavier than, regular water. When that chunk subsided and the river rushed in, the silver water was exposed and washed into the river. (I have a whole theory about the demise of the elderlings, and will post it elsewhere.) At first, it was a great amount, but over time it slowed to a trickle. Even this trickle was enough for Kettle and Verity to gain a skill-coating on their arms and hands. It is also enough to wash downriver and spread out into the low lying Rain Wilds, spreading strangeness as it goes.

Sorry for the choppiness, I'm typing one-handed today and it is surprisingly strenuous.

[Farseer]

Brilliant points, Lord Punctual, and, I have to say (despite my previous lengthy post somewhat to the contrary !), that I agree that volcanic activity definitely had a huge role to play in the changes of the river...ahem, it helps that I've just finished a re-listen of certain portions of DH , though I wish I had the books here with me or a Kindle version of DH available!

During the huge flooding of the river which involved the dragons and their keepers etc, one of the dragons had experienced a memory that had involved one of their dragon ancestors flying around an erupting volcano...the dragon had gone off alone there, into known danger, because it was curious to see what would happen when the spewing lava met with the vastness of ice that surrounded the volcano below. Of course, the dragon was shocked to discover that huge regions of ice melted immediately on contact, and all of this continued on in a raging river torrent of water, ice and ash...

Love it, LP ! Keep going...I can't wait to hear your theories on the Elderlings' demise!!).

[Mervi]

Joost, if you're going to put them in the wiki, I think it would be best to mark the names NOT mentioned in the text itself somehow. Someone could ask Robin, but I think the list is something she had made for herself but then didn't need to use all the names in the actual book. (She's mentioned before keeping files that describe the characters etc so that she can easily go and check the facts when she needs to mention the character again.) We are approaching the "canon or not canon" question here - if she mentions a fact in the interviews that is NOT in the books (and so accessible for all readers) should it be considered canon or not? This list is IN the book, but not in the text itself, so I think it's more clearly canon - but still it would be a good idea to mark those names somehow - especially since the UK editions of the book don't have that list so they might confuse a lot of readers.

[Farseer]

The online preview of the US edition of DH contains a cast of characters list (click on "Table of Contents" and then "Other back matter")
... but I haven't checked it against what is actually inside the book - I remember looking at it and thinking "hmm... can't remember a name like that" so didn't copy it to the wiki. It might be that my memory is not as good as I think, though.

These names all check for me re appear in the text somewhere...

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Ok, going back to look to be SURE, after reading your last post, Mervi!

[Mervi]

I did a bit of searching, and "Skrim" is the only name I couldn't find. A couple of others I thought were missing I however DID find (usually just mentioned once), so I'm not 100% sure of Skrim either.

[Farseer]

Me too (!), though I am fairly sure I do remember Skrim's name fleetingly mentioned so will keep searching...though it is 3am here...what AM I DOING?!

Seeing as the list is included in the US edition, I think it's interesting to note that Sessurea isn't listed at least as a minor character...though he didn't actually survive, his memories certainly did, and seemingly made a huge difference to the outcome of the expedition? Still, to have it the front would have been a spoiler somewhat?

Will have to add a comment on that re how wizardwood still DOES apparently retain its memories even after the dragon inside has died re a previous post I made in the Elderling Creations thread, regarding Tarman vs Ophelia's memories!!! Not for here though...

[Farseer]

Was Carson's last name given in the book(s)?

Yes, it's Lupskip (pg 451 DK UK Ed)...I should have been noting down the page numbers for ALL of the character/dragon names I've found!

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Dotean (Kase's dragon) is on page 159...will try and refind the rest later on today for you. Yet to come across Skrim but time is tight !

[Farseer]

Tinder is mentioned at the top of pg 163 of DH UK Ed (there are most likely other instances for my examples but one is enough for 'proof' so you can include it in the wiki?). I might have to put this info all into a reference table or something!

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I forgot to mention that Nortel is linked with Tinder as his dragon in that same section so this keeper/dragon relationship also matches the list within the text.

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Me again...sorry for the spits and spurts! One minor conflicting thing I have found was Grigsby the cat's colouring...he is described as 'orange' on the book's character list however is 'the ship's yellow cat' anywhere I have seen mention of him within the actual text.

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Ok, STILL to come across Skrim but have finally refound Lecter linked with Sestican as his dragon...is on the bottom half of pg 29, during the time they all went searching for rasp snakes.

[Nuytsia]

Gee that list of characters makes life easier, but if only they'd put it in both versions!

I guess if dragons can change genders in places (and people can change ages) then anything could happen ..!!

I didn't notice the name Skrim in the DH text, but I wasn't looking for it until about 3/4 the way through....